Scargills not blameless but to suggest he's as much to blame is way off the mark, Thatcher was going to do what she did irrespective of Scargill who was a bit part player and no more significant in that Thatcher centric world than Ian McGregor was.

Thatcher had her campaign planned for months if not years before Scargill even got started along the lines of opposing her as vehemently as he did. Her secret stockpiling of chep coal bought from the continent and hidden from the view of everyone is testimony to her intentions. Some might say she was clever, I won't argue that, but many many miners got into the strike not knowing what they were getting into because they did so believing the coal supplies were less than they were. As a result homes were lost, debts were acrued,families destroyed and communities broken on the back of Thatchers pre planned and ruthlessly efficient campeign to break the miners unions. They were collateral damage, cannon fodder and good old Maggie didn't give a toss.

Beyond the miners strike there were many other Thatcher policies that were so hard line that they actualy cost lives!

You forgot to mention the thuggish, bullying tactics employed by striking miners against their own kind and the attempts to cripple the country to meet their own ends - which differed depending on where you stood in the ranks.

Thatcher may have been cold and dispassionate towards the miners, but the miners leaders were cold and dispassionate about our great nation!

Neither side won anything and neither will either side ever win this argument!

All politicions make bad decisions and in that she is no different to the Blair decision to send us to war in Afghanistan and iraq, that doesn't in my book make either of them evil.
To simplify the point made, if Scargill wasn't as bad as Maggie the miners strike would have ended far sooner, equally friendships could have remained and communities divided.
Both made bad calls, the ordinary man suffered as is always the case.
Tbh as interesting as this debate is, I think it serves little purpose but to divide, so maybe it should end?

I think you need to revisit the timeline, I'm not going to pretend that Scargill didn't employ thuggish tactics but they were used in response to the sledghammer tactics of Thatcher and were used in desperation to try and hold solidarity within the miners unions.

Both absolutely wrong, But it was Thatcher who raised the stakes so high that it became life and death and not just a dispute between union and government.

you lot should of lived the 12 months on strike and then suffer the years after trying to catch up with debts that was put on hold.

my local community stood firm and held beliefs that was passed on down by their fore fathers that have died to give most of you your rights for what you now take for granted nowadays.

while trends change in economic times due to 'cost', gas was proven to be cheaper than coal same as the British rail wasn't deemed to be required so lets slimline it down all at cost to the working mans living.

the years that has gone by I have noticed a greed in the private sector and a couldn't careless attitude sod you jack I'm alright from workmates and the attitude of employers now trying to devalue skilled mans job

given the chance to go back and work with my pals back at the pit who I could trust with my life I would,


thugs we was not we just wanted the right to work on a decent wage.

continue with your debate

I think the point many were making was if Scargill had the miners best interests at heart and not his own and the unions, the first paragraph you wrote probably wouldn't have occurred.
I don't think anyone is portraying Maggie in any good light, but the bad light that colours this whole period on British history also reflects badly on Scargill equally.
There were thugs lined up in the strike like there were thugs lined up in the ranks of the police.
A terrible time in our history, sadly the ones who still suffer the most are the largely honest ranks of the miners who just wanted to work and support their families and communities, many of which are still decemated now.

I know the bloke that wrote that for the are you stupid enough to think she wrote it
he claims to be a socalist but a pay day is a pay day.
this woman sold of our assets like gas oil etc.etc. Denis did ok out of it
thats enough about R.L.

Some people are speaking as if the only legacy Thatcher left was the destruction of the coal industry. That was just one element of a completely disastrous tenure. The only reason she kept on getting voted in was the fact most of the general public are idiots, in tandem with a very right wing press and a perceived unelectable Labour opposition. And Vasty whilst you make some fair points, I find it odd that you would use them in the manner and context you have. I'm with Devils on this, i've got the Prosecco chilling in the fridge as we speak

I've held back ,I don't know how many of you were involved in the strike,I was,for the full 12 months and proud of it.I wouldn't have changed it for anything.Arthur Scargills views were correct and predictions came true .if it wasn't for all other spineless unions and SCABS,we wouldn't have a non productive country held to ransom by every bugger else.I still work underground and the strike still hurts and scabs still named.As for that bitch Thatcher,I save a days leave every year ,hoping and praying that she dies so I can get hammered and dance on her grave,hopefully she has a slow painful one.

don't know much about any of that mate. all i do know is anywhere in the world the only 2 british primeministers anyone would be able to name is thatcher and churchill and i am told she was voted in 3 times, once after the strike. this seems to figure that she can't have done a bad job.

It's called being blinkered.look at us now 26 yrs on.what have we got to show?nothing.Mining,steel,docks all manual and skilled work gone.all we are good at it sat in offices staring out of the windows getting old before our time waiting for the world to stop turning at 5oclock coming home thinking they've done a days work.............yes I'm still bitter and when her name is mentioned it brings it all flooding back.that's my rant over.Goodnight.

i'd agree with that mate. you can only sell so many burgers and shuffle so much paper. someone at the end of the day has to produce something to create wealth

Good analogy. Any idea who the most well known German leader is?

My family wasn't directly involved with the strike but my dad ran a company making mining machinery and I remember the time very well, even though I was only about 9 or 10 year old. To say that the whole mine closure had a negative effect on family and friends who did work in the mine would be a massive understatement.

Mines, shipyards, steelworks, british manufacturing in general, where are they now? What little is left is all foreign owned even our electricity, water etc. Who takes the blame? She really knew how to "take care" of working people.

I try not to do politics but it cannot be ignored that just about every bloody thing you buy nowadays is made in China or India etc. You think you're buying something with a good old British name only to find where it was made. There's no wander there's no jobs here because the owners e.g. Dyson have buggered off abroad to pay a pittance to foreign workers and amass huge personal wealth, instead of staying loyal to British workers, (who put them where they are in the first place)-not all of whom were militant.
I look very closely to find place of manufacture and try and buy British but regretfully it's getting harder.
Whatever your view of Thatcher are she really nailed home the phrase 'I'm alright Jack!'
I bet she never went to Belle Vue either!

To wish someone was dead so you can dance on their grave is sick, ateotd that's someones mother who was trying to do their best with a crap hand.

Can't believe comments like those are allowed to stay on a public forum.

This thread is pretty much going as i thought, i wish i'd not added my comments.

On that note i think its not for this forum.

This.

Plus the fact that the sig material that started this whole debate weren't actually her original thoughts - she was (rather clumsily) paraphrasing the work of the Austrian philosopher and economist Friedrich Hayek, whom she later ensured was elevated to the Order of the Companions of Honour.

Evil [iand[/i unoriginal.

Plenty of class on show on this thread......

So you can only "do a days work" if you come home physically exhausted and covered in coal dust?

I think that's a simplification of the point that was being made; it's true to say that in many traditional manufacturing and mining areas, many of the jobs that were lost have eventually been replaced, but by lower paid, less skilled jobs such as warehousing, distribution and call centres. The people doing those jobs earn less, spend less, pay lower taxes and are more reliant on top-up benefits such as HB and tax credits - representing a net loss to the national and local economy and as the OP alluded to, a significant negative impact on wellbeing and happiness - a much ignored economic metric.

That overlooks such things as the national minimum wage, health and safety etc, all making the overall cost of british manufacturing more expensive that many other countries around the world.
What is also overlooked is that the world in the last twenty-thirty years, has become an awful lot smaller, and what were regional industries, were replaced with worldwide markets and corporations.
Industries of the 20th century have been replaced with industries of the 21st, peoples reliance on all things automated and computerised is a world away from dirty men crawling on all fours with pick axes, toiling in the ground.
I know what job i'd rather have my son doing when it comes around to his stint in the workplace.