one of the reasons I started this thread is that at his age from being one of the fastest in the school over short distances I ended up being the fastest over the 1500 doing at a time of 4 - 08 with no one pacing me and a half a lap in front of any chasing pack.

he hasn't either to be truthful line speed is slow to get off which I now believe he has a body posture problem (due to the wear on his school shoes) and stamina to last the full at a high pace, don't get me wrong when the lad is in full flow and has got up to speed he powers through well it just needs a tweak

Pretty much summed me up, in a straight sprint I would have confidently backed myself against most playing the game in England including first team level, but I could not break a tackle and I struggled with size, due to my lack of size late development.

that's why I thought it might not be the ideal place for him, like I said to him it would be like chasing the rabbit

Why so tetchy? It's a discussion board, after all. If you want to offer private advice, you can do that. If you want to deliver general statements of fact, be prepared to justify them.

I think i did but you seem to think by throwing a hand full a sprinter names out there that they are the norm rather than the exception....as good as they are, and also because they are not the are the norm they have a very unique style that is not what you would normally look to coach a developing junior rugby player.

Just to clarify Johnh, I wasn't aiming my comments at you!

Did not take it that you were mate.

I'm not suggesting they're the norm, I'm simply pointing out that in the top 10 list of sprinters, there are as many tall as there are short, and that a norm in that sense is perhaps unhelpful. As far as I understand it, Snowie wants to know whether sprint training at Wakefield Harriers will help his lad get quicker. There may be a number of other people who'd like to know whether this type of training could improve their kids' performance. They'll come in all shapes and sizes, and no doubt one solution will not suit all. However, whether you're the ideal shape and size to be a sprinter, according to perceived wisdom, or not, it doesn't seem to make that much difference in terms of the speed you can attain. So is it worth any up-and-coming young rugby league player joining an athletics club, or should they do something else, and if so, what?

I'm involved with the Harriers and know that some of the coaches, one in particular, has done speed training with several rugby league, including super league players. If you want to PM me some details about him - age, contact details, position he plays etc I can get someone to contact him who can match him to the best coach.

Many of the people down there are big Wakey fans so don't assume they just have athletics at heart.

I do a lot of work with Neil Holmes who is a senior lecturer on Athletics at Leeds Carnegie University and has worked extensively with Leeds Rhinos over the last 5 years or so. Is he by chance one of the coaches you refer to in your post?

I think all of the above is answered in the thread.

it does fascinate the difference between stamina and sprint as it is totally different,

my mrs first view of a winger was John Bentley at Halifax and was amazed of his leg size

smitten to RL since

thanks for all assistance I will take all info in and if anyone can go deeper into why the difference it would be far more entertaining than arguing stadiums

remember when that sprinter turned out for cas, he chased a kick for 80 yards, then wanted to lie down for an hour.

lindsay rotherford could shift a bit. remember that try against fulham at belle vue as if it were yesterday.

The young full back side stepped him like he wasn't there and Chambers went flying past.

Bentos, what a legend. Is he still playing? I think he was turning out for a local RU team a couple of years back.

He was flippin' quick though

Thats where the sports specific conditioning comes in. All his life he trained to perform over a 10 second max time scale and as such he conditioned his body to do just that via his training. His anaerobic system was superb, but his aerobic system not nearly prepared for the demands of rugby league.

That is the point about young lads going to Harriers who are doing it for the benefit of improving speed at rugby. Harriers will certainly give coaching and technique advise related to improving sprinting for athletics, but its a little more complex than that because you have to look at technique for a rugby player that will improve his speed but also not have a negative impact on his ability to take contact etc.

Rugby players generally when looking to improve speed need to improve on the initial acceleration phase as very rarely do players get into the "flight" phase so it is important to consider the game you are playing prior to any conditioning/coaching is undertaken.

It's a purely unscientific view, but our U13's team recently recruited a couple of lads who've been playing football since they were 6 or 7; they're relatively green to RL, but are scoring tries for fun (one lad has scored 13 tries in 3 games) mostly by virtue of being able to accelerate from a standing start and change direction very quickly. I'm not a fan of the game at all, but these lads are almost certainly benefitting in RL terms from their football training.

In the context of this conversation, I guess a decent football training regime will include some sprint/speed work that's adapted to be appropriate to the sport?

Indeed football is an intermittent sprint sport, so change in pace is essential and they undertake a high level of high intensity short sprints and agility training and obviously the crossover has benefited their ability to play rugby. They do a lot of footwork training in football at a young age, which i would like to see more of in league.

There are areas obviously though that they may struggle on as well given that they came to the game late, especially as they mature, or rather those around them do and the game becomes more physical.

The lads in question are, fortunately, big raw-boned eejits who seem to relish the contact element of RL; what they lack in technique, they make up for in enthusiasm. Meanwhile, The Clan is working on their technique with some tackle-bag beastings.

My own son has a different issue - like me, he's below average size and has decided to compensate by hitting the weights and building strength; I can't see too much harm in it provided that he does relatively low weights and doesn't work to failure, but there is conflicting advice on t'internet about kids and weight training.

It depends on what stage of development he is. I would suggest bodyweight exercises especially if he is hitting maturity and about to go through a broth spurt. Too much weight lifting etc can cause issues with developing bones.

I do a body weight session myself every night and it is far more intense than my morning session in the gym. In my opinion although its seen as "non macho" bodyweight exercises are fantastic and very gruelling if worked into a good 20 to 30 minute session and will result in great strength improvements in a relatively short period of time, also excellent for core stability which assists in many aspects of our game especially prevention of injury.

Pretty much agree with Johnh so far,

We will be doing lots of ladder and slalom work during the off season.
Very rarely during a game of rugby do players run at speed in straight lines.

Sprint sessions will be mainly short distances although with some longer distance drills to improve speed endurance.

Cadence is a more individual thing and a bit of analysis will be required before planning sessions to improve technique.

Closer to the start of the season we will be utilising more game related practice that will incorporate elements of the above drills.

I never used to be 'lightening' fast but I could shift when I could be bothered, the best time I did for the 100m was 13.5 seconds which was a school record for a while. After 2 ACLs reconstructions and several other operations to sort out the niggles in the other knee do you think the harriers could help me too?!!

He's certainly hoping that a growth spurt is around the corner!

He's getting some light dumbells for Xmas and I've set him up a little gym in the cellar; I'm intending to put some wallcharts up with suitable bodyweight and low level resistance workouts and will be doing my best to ensure that he doesn't order a load of humatrope off t'internet - at least not with my credit card.