I would argue that the actions of the sport (RFL) at this moment in time are causing more disillusion with rugby league than I can remember in my lifetime. I only subscribe to sky to watch the rugby league and I am on the verge of cancelling everything which includes sky HD, multiroom and the full programs package.

I agree with the argument that if the RFL don't want us then we wont get a franchise.

One thing that i don't think has been brought up is the conflict of interest the the RFL has. We all know that they have loaned Crusaders 700k so therefore the RFL have a vested interest in them succeeding meaning there is a conflict of interest when deciding if Crusaders get a franchise or not. Conflict of interest, correct me if i am wrong is illegal under business laws.

That is very true but given the fact we are talking about the RFL, I think it will be fair to say that this issue will have been covered by clever wording in the terms of the agreement for the financial support. They want Crusaders to succeed and will go through hell and high water to make it so. They are not going to be undone by a technicality.

The RFL would love a strong Wakefield side in SL. There are around 330k people in the district, thats a huge market. They would love a club representative of all those people, able to tap into that market at all levels with a Wakefield club at the top of the pyramid. It is a strong amateur area and the RFL would love a club able to take advantage of that strength.

However they arent getting that. What they have at the moment is two clubs in tired stadiums struggling to survive who spend more time fighting each other than fighting for the game. Wakefield and Castleford are the two biggest obstacles to success either face. That is what the RFL want to get rid of. The game can no longer survive as a parish v parish game, with a couple of thousand people keeping pit workers in beer money, that will kill it.

SL needs a strong Wakefield club, at the moment that is neither the Wildcats or the Tigers.

P+R damaged the game, we saw it every year, we saw clubs struggling to put in place the long term plans needed, we saw a game which in some areas bounced from crisis to crisis for years. How can Wakey not have a pop at SL, they are in SL?

Other areas have a right to this game just as much as the heartlands. The games current structure is weighted towards the heartlands, the RFL need and do give a leg up to the expansion sides but all that does is level the playing field.

I think the other leagues should break away from the 'Super' League this would allow them to get back to what Rugby League is all about, it's practically run like two different sports anyway! All the other clubs ought to achnowledge that chances of promotion are very slim anyway and work against the Super League focusing only on their own game and promoting that, they could boycott the Challenge Cup too! It would be interesting then to see how much this franchise system matters and how much the RFL really needs/wants the clubs in the lower divisions. I'd happily watch Wakefield Trinity in a lower division then!

And you would be happy to see them forgo their TV money, Sport England money, Grant money, Challenge Cup money, insurance, loan players, affiliations with amateur clubs, SL clubs, etc?

... this is just the Rovers forum from 2007/2008, we were saying all this back then and got called 'dinosaurs'...

Yep. They aren't doing us any good at the moment are they!?!?
I'd rather watch a game where it comes down to the results, not the location of the club or the colour of the tiles in the toilets.

Welcome to the forum mr Lewis

Actually, he has a point.

They are doing plenty of good. In fact a huge amount. Where do you think all your players come from? the amateur leagues, how happy are they going to be when you look to take their players and directly compete against the very people who give them pretty much all of their money?

You think things are bad now, take away the hundreds of thousands given the championships and the TV exposure, and the insurance, and the million and one unnoticed things the RFL do and being members of the RFL entitles you and think how much worse that would be.

I'm not sure you are really getting my point. The whole franchise issue is a total farce. How can you say that the RFL value the Championship clubs when they are forcing them to play year in year out for nothing?
I would rather watch a game where the results matter at the end of the season and the teams fight it our right up to the last whistle. Promotion/relegation is a necessary feature for me every year and this should be done on results, not based on a PowerPoint presentation showing what the club has to offer.

The way it's looking I wouldn't bother with your PNG in the NRL link at the bottom of your signature, sod it, if they've got a nice stadium kick another established English team out and let them into the Super League!

They dont play for nothing, they play for the same reason as the SL clubs play. To Win
Why? i have no interest in watching a game to see who is the worst team in the league. I want to watch games deciding who are the best. P+R is unstable and damaging.

But that isnt the only issue is it, As much as you have attempted to argue it is. Wakefield themselves admit and are showing that the status quo as they are isnt sustainable. Franchising hasnt caused Wakefields current problems. In fact, it is not having a decent stadium that has caused it. P+R wouldnt improve this at all.

I agree that with P+R we would still be in a financial mess. However, i feel that with P+R we would be able to focus our efforts on to the field and stay in SL by playing better rugby and winning more games than other teams., rather than having to focus on a stadium, yes we all know Belle Vue isn't up to scratch but we would still be able to get Newmarket without the pressure of having to rush it through.

Haven't we known Belle Vue hasn't been fit for the job for years? It's 'our' fault we're rushing things because 'we' left it to the last minute.

But that being the case, you would have never addressed the real structural problems that are stopping Wakefield not just surviving in SL but excelling.

As for the Newmarket proposal, i hope it comes up for you, but its wrong to say franchising is causing you to rush it, you have been in SL for 12 years now, ample time. Maybe franchising has focussed Wakefield a little more, but this is a good thing. As this off-season is showing, Wakefield at Belle Vue simply isnt sustainable. It is Belle Vue (in the main) which is responsible for the financial problems, pushing you to replace it can only be a good thing long term for the game, but also for Wakefield.

Your friends at the RFL did give the people of Bridgend a right to the game - but then they took it away to a non-league soccer club with a half-decent stadium.The efforts of your friends at the RFL to expand the game have been spectacular failures.
Giving a leg-up to a club where former employees were guilty of a charity scam,where the former CEO is on bail for theft anf fraud charges and where the soccer supporters have a deep mistrust for the 2 owners of Crusaders.
Taking the current CEO from another club in an expansion area hardly benefits the other club and the finacial undertaking with Crusaders is anything but a level playing field.
Higher attendances are usually found in local derby games but with the country in economical decline supporters have to find money to go to France to follow their side.
Unfortunately,with Wrexham being so accessible for supporters living in 'the heartlands' the Crusaders attendances may be reasonable but the off-field situation at Wrexham is simmering.
It is hardly a level playing field for a club to lose its Super League Licence because the council won't construct a stadium.It is nothing to do with rugby league.

:3mq7rr1kThey didnt give anybody the right to the game, They already have it. The game doesnt belong to you, me, Leeds Rhinos, Crusaders or Wakefield Trinity Wildcats. It belongs to all of us.
:3mq7rr1kthe operative word there being former. However ill you wish to speak of Crusaders it doesnt alter the fact that after 137 years, 12 years in SL, and years of SL money, Wakefield still havent addressed their structural problems. Wakefield are failling because of faillings at Wakefield. Not because of Crusaders or the Expansion bogeyman. Wakefield would be where they are regardless of Crusaders admission to the League.
:3mq7rr1kI think you will find Rod Findlay makes his own decisions.
:3mq7rr1kThats not Crusaders fault. Les Catalans fault, or anyone else in RL's fault. If you want to watch a West Yorkshire league, go start one, see how many people and clubs want to follow you. See how many television companies want to screen it and see how long it survives.
:3mq7rr1kerrm, yes, its definitly unfortunate that a Rugby League clubs attendance is reasonable. Gosh darn them, why cant they just be crap and support your argument, Why do they have to be better and make you look silly
Wakefield would still be in this position. You can blame whoever you want but you cant get around the fact that people dont want to watch Wakefield at Belle Vue, 12 years of SL havent improved that position and the business model is proving to be unsustainable there. Pass the buck all you want. Bad mouth expansion, Crusaders, Quins whoever it doesnt matter, It wont make Wakefield any stronger.

If Wakefield were getting good attendances, they would have more money, a better squad, better youth development, better financials, and be in all around a better position and the stadium wouldnt loom so large,

And at the end of the season even if they have won all their games people with the same opinion as you decide they don't deserve a chance at top flight rugby. How can that be fair? I ask again, where's the motivation to win the Championship?




You want big crowds. You want exiting games. You should have been at the Wakefield V Castlford relegation battle game a few seasons ago. I'm not sure i've ever seen as many at Belle View! It's a far fairer way of getting rid of the 'worst team' than dragging it out for four years and then denying them a place in the league based on their franchise application!


Correct me if i'm wrong here, but where did I blame franchising for our current situation?

The gap between the the Super League and Championship is always increasing and undoubtedly scrapping P&R has increased this dramatically. The leagues don't even score themselves them in the same way anymore!

the same motivation there is to win SL. To win.

wasnt there about 11k there? which would be Leeds lowest attendance of the season by some way. The point of franchising isnt to have one, one off match a season attracting good crowds to see a game to decide who is the worst, its to put in place the structures and allow clubs to build to getting good crowds all the time and to allow clubs to build to be challenging at the top.

which just shows how silly P+R was.

To those who want a break away league to house former Yorkshire greats, I can confirm that in 2012 there will be a league where there will be local derbies, involving us, Dewsbury, Batley, Fev, and possibly Cas and Halifax. These will slug it out all season and will have not only TV money but also it's own knock out tournament.

That's what is being asked for by some loons, and it is on it's way for us. It's called the Championship. Now what was your point again?

I agree with Smokey wholehearteredly here. If Wakefield get relegated, it will be the clubs fault, not the RFL's. The club has had more than enough time to sort itself out, it hasn't and it could fall to pieces soon because of it.

Smokey's quite right about the RFL wanting a strong Wakefield side. Wakefield is a RL hotbed with a very high amount of amateur players in the area. The population of Wakefield is higher than that of Hull, the home of two successful SL clubs. To say the RFL wants Wakefield out solely because they want an expansion side in is madness. The RFL are taking a leaf out of the NRL book with Franchises, so I'm sure they're also aware that the NRL has eight teams in Sydney. This means that five SL teams in West Yorkshire is possible. If Wakefield were well run, well supported and financially viable the RFL would be more than happy for us to be in. The likelihood is we'll get kicked out and that will be because the club is badly run.

Mr Slithers you talk about the attendance at the relegation battle at Belle Vue, but have you looked at the attendances for the rest of the matches that season? If I remember rightly more than half of the matches didn't reach 40% of capacity. There were only three significant attendances that season; the two against Cas and one against Bradford in the first round, the rest were pitifully low. In fact we played Bradford twice that season, the second match being about half the attendance of the first and the attendance for Leeds was about half of the same fixture the previous year. The reliance for attendances on two or three matches a season is true of every season. We always rely on the travelling fans of Leeds, Bradford and Cas to bump up our attendances. Heck, even when we have a half price ticket offer to see Diversity we still can't anywhere near the capacity.

Absolutely ludricous statement believing that the RFL want a strong Wakefield Wilcats, it reads a good argument but is grasping at straws. Have you forgotten Celtic Crusaders, Harlequins and Catalan Dragons, they are representive of which town or city?

Do any of those clubs have a strong fan base, travelling support or infrastucture?

Wakefield and Castleford are both easily identified with not only every rugby league fan but all viewers of the sport on SKY TV.

I feel that neither the RFL or SKY are bothered which club is in Super League as long as either club has a new stadium a good financial base, a good fan base and the infrstructure in place to support the club going forward.

Yes that is a contradiction as to what is actually happening when looking at the clubs guarenteed a Super League place.

If we want to remain in Super League we have to deliver what the RFL and SKY want, if we cannot then theres no point apportioning blame to the RFL or SKY, the club knew what was at stake when they recieved a franchise 3 years ago, have the club or more importantly the BOD moved us forward enabling us to be in a strong position for the new license application they have not.

It is easy to blame others for the problems that beset the club, me personally the club itself is to blame for the dilema we now face.

You really don't get my point at all do you?


I am not talking about the Wildcats, we have obviously been poorly managed and now we look to be in the and unlike other teams in the SL we don't look like we'll get bailed out by the RL. I am talking about the franchise situation in general. Promotion and relegation gives all teams hope at playing at the top regardless of where they are based or how large their crowds are. Scrapping promotion and relegation has essentially told clubs they have no chance at getting to the top and been used as an excuse to save teams that didn't deserve to be there. What kind of motivation is that?!?!?
Promotion and relegation keeps the season alive until the last whistle, it makes it exciting at both ends of the table and it is fair for all clubs, it links the leagues, franchising does not!

Yes I know, I went to a lot of them. Without knowing it you have just proved my point and shown why we need promotion and relegation! The battles bring in the crowds and make the final games exciting. I'm moaning about the way Super League teams are decided, not about the way we have been managed.