Lyon, Volcano, Barrett, Paul, Gidley etc etc.

Centres etc like Atkins and shenton will learn more defending against players like Lyon than they will against Kevin King. We keep saying we need a state of origin intensity. Increase quota spots and get the origin players over here.

Those players aren't the problem, it's the dross who get lauded at 'legends' when they are nothing of the sort.

Got to say only massive difference is the kick chase quality. We should be all over them this half but we have nothing in the tank.

Sometimes you need and Obst and Jeffries to get the best out of a Rooney and Brough.

Today we lacked a good field kicker. Briers or Brough but they aren't available yet.

bradford, huddersfield, salford, celtic, london,catalan. all these are areas who produce hardly any players, so what do you expect. no more imports untill the game is healthy. why should we and many other teams need 3 and 4th rate aussies its just wrong, we are never going to win anything, so we should be going to franchise and saying look we have got the facilities and we are going to develop our own players.

australia have a mass depth of talent, fantastic facilities in the schools and correct people running the game.too many over here walking about in rfl track suits who have no bloody idea. coaches who see centres grow so put them in the pack, who tell half backs not to run with the ball, who coach flair out of kids.

if anyone thinks bringing second rate or 4th rate aussies over is the answer is an idiot if they were any good they would get a game at home. spend time and energy on our own players and give them an oppertunity.

100% right mopsey

We have too many 4th rate aussies in our game, but why do we have to have a 4th rate coach for England ?

who wants the job weve tried a couple of aussies, weve tried noble, who else is there.fact is weve not enough good players, so whoever you put in charge are up against it.

Glad I took the decision to stay in a horizontal position and listen on 5Live rather than sit and watch. Also interesting interview at half-time with Kempy who is involved with the Junior Kiwi set up and who have one thing that we don't have a strategy for youth development. Afraid we are a very poor third in the world at present and it's a long way back. www.nzrl.co.nz/junior-kiwis.aspx

Glad I took the decision to stay in a horizontal position and listen on 5Live rather than sit and watch. Also interesting interview at half-time with Kempy who is involved with the Junior Kiwi set up and who have one thing that we don't have a strategy for youth development. Afraid we are a very poor third in the world at present and it's a long way back. www.nzrl.co.nz/junior-kiwis.aspx

Quote ="The Trip"Glad I took the decision to stay in a horizontal position and listen on 5Live rather than sit and watch. Also interesting interview at half-time with Kempy who is involved with the Junior Kiwi set up and who have one thing that we don't have a strategy for youth development. Afraid we are a very poor third in the world at present and it's a long way back. www.nzrl.co.nz/junior-kiwis.aspx'" Dave Woods was on about Kemp and junior development on the BBC site. Not quite so sure the crossover between League and Union would work over here mind.

Quote ="The Trip"Glad I took the decision to stay in a horizontal position and listen on 5Live rather than sit and watch. Also interesting interview at half-time with Kempy who is involved with the Junior Kiwi set up and who have one thing that we don't have a strategy for youth development. Afraid we are a very poor third in the world at present and it's a long way back. www.nzrl.co.nz/junior-kiwis.aspx'" Dave Woods was on about Kemp and junior development on the BBC site. Not quite so sure the crossover between League and Union would work over here mind.

Still doesn't change the fact, he's a poor coach. Plus, he was the one who picked the team.

Good point, I do think it's a closer link in junior levels in the league area's over here just not publicised. If a closer working relationship could be built between the 2 codes it can only benefit both codes.

Sadly they are the few that we need in our game the vast majority are plodders who can't make it in Aus.
We tried the Yorkshire/Lancashire thing a few years ago and it didn't work nobody really cared. The problem lies in the youth development we need better coaching at junior level and better opportunities for young players at the top level. If the quota rules were sorted out I'd be more in favour of the franchise system as it would allow teams to blood youngsters without fear of relegation.

Nail on head but when will the penny drop

One of the main differences between the sides is the intensity that the Austalians play,every game is played with the same intensity whereas over here you probably only play at the same intensity three or four games a season.Until we get each team as strong in depth as one another I just do not see how we will ever challenge the aussies or n.z ever again and ,in my opinion,the franchise system at the moment is a big hindranceas each team has only 3 years to establish a strong squad and it will take 10 to 15 years to hope to beat them so either increase the number of super league clubs so that all clubs are able to bring youngsters through lor dare I say it no franchise for 10 years.

Agree 100% as well. Next year potentially KR will have only one English player (Murrell) from 6-13. That is sad. All teams are guilty to some degree or another though.

the aussie commontaters were saying that the only way is for the UK to send its top 200 young plyers to play league in Australia for 2 years.. they will get the right coaching the right intensity and some will gravitate to the top of the game..

the most telling quote was about Atkins.... "he can certainly tackle.... he just can defend!"

I just feel that we never got the chance to see whether we are far behind or not, as we coughed up possession too often. I thought when we had the ball we looked okay. We had quick play the balls and we making good ground.

Two dodgy ref decisions gave them two tries they shouldn't have had and took the game away from us. And Cudjoe was just the wrong player to put there. Maybe on the wing, but not there. We know our three-quarters is where we are weak, and we play someone who isn't aggressive enough. He let in two soft tries through not being aggressive enough.

The Aussies are beatable, but you've got to get into their faces, get some fists flying.

how can we justify have a full time coach for 3 matches and a friendly once a year, how the hell can he prepare for these so little game times

Agree about Cudjoe. He is a talented full back or winger, but is he physical enough for centre? And how much has he played centre? He just did not look solid enough for centre imo.

I agree.... just not by the quality of player available to represent England at the moment


I used to watch plyers like hanley, gregory x2 Edwards etc... plyers who are far better than those available today... and they couildnt beat Australia... during the superleague war the aussie test team lacked a whole team full of internationals and won ... that Australian Team was weak by comparision to the best available plyers if fit... yet they won at a canter... shutting the game down for the second half.

the game yesterday was depressing... the auusie press are even now suggesting a two nation competition next year... England must dominate and destroy PNG at the weekend to have any credibility in the game!

When you think that Atkins, who many at Wakey weren't that bothered when he left, was our main centre with Cudjoe the other are we in anyway surprised we couldn't cut it? The decision to play curly wig and Cudjoe in those positions was even more ridiculous than the video ref calls and thats going some. To have any chance we needed to be right at the top of our game and get a bit of luck along the way, we got neither. The ball was stripped from Briscoe who was adjudged to have knocked on on our 20 then they immediately got the knock on try. That try of Tate's that followed was never a try in a million years, if he had control of that we might as well play basketball. By then we were never coming back with the players we had out there, too much inexperience and they had no belief. To be fair for all the daft mistakes they kept going when for a time with the amount of possession they had I thought we were gonna have 50 past us.

We were outplayed, no question about that; several players and the coach were totally out of their depth.

Even so, the refereeing can't pass without mention; the Aussie officials were so ridiculously biased against England, at times it bordered on the comical. Surely the ref's have to be neutral from here onwards?

I thought we did very well, all things considered and have a fair amount to be proud of. We got hammered by the video ref and also by the onfield ref at crucial times, and the convicts made us pay. We didn't get the rub of the green when we needed it and possesion was massively against us early doors putting us on the back foot from the off. Having said that, its fairly obvious to me that:

We don't have any centres of International Class. Atkins is well out of his depth and Cudjo clearly not a centre.

Playing players out of position doesn't work, we have seen at Wakey over the last couple of years that you can't do it at domestic level never mind International. Brown should have been given a chance to play with Robinson (who I don't really rate but has played very well I think) with SO'L at 13.

McNamara needs to be a bit more aware, it was obvious that they had singled out Tomkins as our (only) strike back - and they kicked him to death and hammered him. When the time came for the first round of substitutions he should have moved up to 6 and SO'L to the back row.

I must be the only one who doesn't see what Fielden offers, can't for the life of me understand what he brings to the team.

Quickly browsed through the thread so apologies if this has already been brought up, but the single most inhibiting factor on the standard of the British game is the all encompassing football and how it dominates the English psyche.

If the sport ever imploded upon itself RL would instantly have access to a number of prime athletes suited for the 1-7 positions, and that increased pool of raw talent should see the difference between the southern hemisphere teams and the English naturally close. It alone would not see England overtake the Aussies but it should bridge the gap somewhat.

Similarly if football ever became as big in Australia as it is in England then again it would swallow up the players suitable for the backs which would reduce their potential talent pool and bring the two nations closer together. They would still have the superior coaching and competitions, but that is something that can be adopted into the game in England far easier than creating a situation where the two nations have a similar sized pool of players in which to develop top class players from.

Oh, the second thing is the weakness of mind of the English players in comparison to the Australians, this is something that affects all English (British) sports stars. When things get tough, generally our players wither under the pressure, where as the Aussies become stronger.