the problem is though you have to look at them in the context of who else is available in what position and for what kind of money. if there are no replacements who are available on the same money or less, then what have you gained? better the devil you know? alternatively you could argue that a change for some players would benefit themselves and the club. its not an exact science it's is a value judgement at the end of the day and all clubs make errors when signing or re-signing players

How do we find out which are the high and which are the low wage earners?

You dont

but from what ive heard drew, brough, rooney, martin biggest earners.

Who are these Clubs who have a similar budget to us but are producing better squads? I would argue that for what we spend we are punching well above our weight having been on a fairly even keel with the likes of Hull KR, Hudds, Wire and Bradford despite them spending way more than us and having better crowds.

We all want the club to improve but on our attendances we never will because the money just isn't there. This means that we do need to get the best out of average players with a sprinkling of better quality players. Now the signing of both the average and above average is the key personally I don't think we're doing to bad and can't think of any realistic coaching option who would be better than JK.

Guess ---

Here goes.

=redEdited TRB - sorry but that it highly inaccurate and I don't think we should go as far as trying to guess the numbers directly

I dont mind fans slgging players off - you pay your money and have an opinion. That said I cant believe that so many fans can turn so quickly after a few defeats. Seems a bit OTT to me. I reckon that we have a good team excellent coaching staff and a very bright future.

Heard a certain overseas outside back is on >£70k said man probably cost us in region of £10k per game! Bargain!

I think we are above an average team, we are not title contenders but I would like to see the rest how the season pans out before we had a clear out of any players,
I get to talk to barry eaton on a regular basis and he has told me that after every game he always finishes on a positive then a negative when talking to his team,
may be our supporters should take the same attitude rather than coming away angry.

no offence snowie but i think you're in dream land if you think we are above average. we have finished in the play offs once. we are an average team at best and i am perfectly comfortable with that. for how many seasons in superleague have we struggled against relegation? i will be happy with a top 10 finish personally and accept the restrictions the club faces season after season. as long as we continue to make progress off the field regarding a stadium which will ultimately secure our long term future, then i can put up with our lot on it for now.

I think he means the bunch of players we have at the club is above average and which I agree with. We have some very good players who on there day could beat anyone!

I would be very dissapointed if we did not finish in the top 8. We should aim for at least the top 5/6

Agree totally but would also add PLAYING IN AN AVERAGE SL

consistency is what makes average players above average and as such the fact that most of our players are unable to maintain performance levels makes them average in the main. i accept there is the odd exception.
we can aim for the top 5/6 and there is nothing wrong with being ambitious, but we have to be realistic - we have shiit all money and have one hand tied behind our back. think of all the other clubs who can blow us out of the water when it comes to signing players. money isn't everything but it has a significant impact on the depth of squad and the number of matchwinners you can get in your starting 17. we will simply never compete until we get more people through the gate, hoping for the odd success here and there

its not a case of us having average players, its more binding the players all at the same time, each player is part of the trinity engine, and when one of the clogs get worn its replaced but the part often doesn't fit straight away, takes time to fit in,
we have to be more crafty in our plays to over come the top teams,
we have had games where nothing went wrong and we came away thinking where the hell did that performance come from,

its without doubt its the passion of the loss of adam and leon that has got us in 6th and it has to be found again

I agree with that, if the cap ever gets raised it could be the down fall of clubs like us, but then they wouldn't be the same sized league and that would be a backwards step

I'm suprised it took so long TBH..

I appreciate we all tend to over-react at times, but remember we have never been able to field a settled side - last weekend we were without Murphy, Blanch, Drew, Stosic, Latu, Petesen & Ferguson, most of whom featured when we were going well earlier in the season. On Sunday we saw Frankie playing his 2nd game, Ronney playing his 1st, and Bibey his first for 8 weeks or so. Come on, cut JK and the boys a bit of slack here, fair play to JK who doesn`t use injuries as an excuse, preferring to say that "1 player`s misfortune in another player`s opportunity"
As fans we should do our part and get behind WHOEVER pulls on a Wakey shirt.

I've read a few posts like these and felt bewildered, I dont think anyone is over reacting calling for Kears head or anything like that but I think people are beginning to look at potential reasons why for the 3rd time in a row we've started like a house on fire and begin to fall away, and why we cant be consistent. Its a reasoned debate and one worth having imo. So everyone up the backsides of the club (not specifically referring to you two, lighten up and allow people to debate over these topics.

Of the two posts you put up I think Bigal was just making an observation and semitone was making what ammounts to a plea to stay off the players' back in what a lot of fans' think is a mini crisis. You right of course it is a reasoned debate and lets hope it stays that way. Critisism is good so long as it is constructive and lessons can be learned from it. But its when it turns into abuse that it doesnt do any good, and I think that is what semitone means.

so correct me if i am wrong, we have lost to leeds, saints, wigan twice, bradford and harlequins..first 4 at the start of the season i would have had as top 4 in super league..harlequins always difficult away. i think this weekend is a big game because it is games like this that i think we should be winning to be top 8.

Don't think it's the losing so much as the manner in which we've played that's so disappointing. I can only comment on the Saints, Wigan, and Bradford games, as I didn't see the rest (thank God). The Saints game I would write off due to the circumstances anyway, but in the other 2 we were poor, looked devoid of ideas and were unable time and again to respond to the same plays that kept shipping points for the opposition. That, plus the extremely high error count, is what's disappointing. We can't exert any real pressure any more. We just don't seem to be in the game.

Bingo, this sums it up completely for me. We are an average (or slightly less than average) side who has over acheived, mainly due to the fact we have played several teams who where also struggling at the time (Hull FC, Wigan, Bradford, Warrington etc).

The whole league is a very poor standard this year in my opinion.

I'm more than happy with the clubs progress on and off the field.

You can't expect miracles overnight, 3 years ago we were buying NL1 season tickets (or so we thought) We are now in the top 8, better squad than we have had in SL and we lose a few games and everyone jumps on the clubs back!

Typical.

FWIW I think this is the most exciting season ever in SL, and if it wasn't for the franchise aspect it would be even better.

On what grounds do you think that???

We have seen a lot of young players been given their opportunity at just about every club this season......this did not happen pre franchise!!! Not at the current numbers anyway!

Because it's less exciting IMO