Warrington .

Behave old man and get the teas in

Not at them prices.

As far as I know ,not sure about the order,Wigan ,saints ,Leeds and hull ,watched the Warrington game, Wakefield played well ,but Warrington were poor ,point I'm making year 18s won national title beat Wigan 3out of4 'saints2 from2 leeds2 from 2 ,hull2from2 warrington2 from2 and how many of them were given chance to make it ,that's why I say I ain't getting exited till they prove themselves against the best

I don't get your point.
You say you can't tell whether the players are good enough because you haven't seen them play against players you feel are the best (though I assume you haven't seen them play yet either) - yet you tell us on another thread you are a great judge if not the best and you should judge them by watching them.
Why do you need to watch them against Wigan to tell if they are good players? As a team that will tell you if they are a better team than Wigan but shouldn't stop someone with your undoubted talent spotting a good player.

The same applies the other way. Sometimes a great team has no individuals that can progress on their own, especially when moving fromyouth to the big leagues.

I believe the difference between the 2 is that the 'talent' in the 18's was all across the park and not focussed in individual players. The best, in most opinions at the time, were Annakin, Trout, Walshaw and Southernwood. Southernwood left and has not made the grade, the other 3 are still here and trying to stamp their mark. Most of that squad were not coveted by our rivals at the time.

The 16's are not fantastic across the park, but we do have a small number of very talented players who are coveted by our rivals. There is an honest belief that we are working towards producing 2/3 players from this group, just as our rivals aim to achieve with their young uns.

The really difficult thing is turning one or two good kids into good Super League players. If we could do that every few years then we would have done well.

Any team news ?

If you can't see my point pop tart I'm wasting my time trying to explain,thought it was obvious that if your playing against the best and you can hack it there's every chance with the right coaching youl become a good player. I know there are late developers another skill that a good coach will spot so please don't point that out to me,if you look at my posts about the u16s not one have I said they are poor or I have not been impressed ,merely pointed out that to convince me they have to shine against the better teams

But that is my point.
Why do you have to wait?

Firstly, why do you say those teams are the best? and second why can't you tell if the players are good from the games they have played
I'm not suggesting you are saying they are not good, but you say you are a good judge, so why not share your thoughts now?

We can all say if they beat Wigan they are good. I was hoping to tap in to your greater experience of watching young players develop.

This is my last attempt at trying to educate you pop tart ,firstly as far as I know the years befores u15s were split into2divisions for last seasons u16 as wake fields u 15sfinished in the bottom half the year before they were put in the bottom division,finished unbeaten a good acheivment but avoided playing the teams who had finished in the top half the year before are you with me so far so you'd think the teams in the top division would be stronger, agreed.I like many more can judge aplayers football ability by watching him play but that doesn't tell you if in another 2or 3yrs when other things come into his game such as pace , strength and in my opinion the thing that finishes many a budding young UN his ticker

The "Ticker" is the first point when you spot talent, you can't coach heart in to a player, it is the first and foremost import part of any players makeup, this can be spotted at 6 years old and nurtured/developed to help enhance the other skills, this would also show whether you were playing the top teams or the not so top teams, can't believe you wait so long to look for the heart of a player

So you are saying you can't judge the players yet?

I actually didn't know about the split division so that would be good to explain. I get that point now. Maybe you should have started with that instead of the bluster.

But didn't you go on about Neil Fox being quality and he played as a teenager etc and these guys aren't like that?
All I wanted was your opinion on the players, as you say you have seen tehm and know a thing or two. Was a genuine question rather than trying to wind you up.
But the fact that you don't makes me doubt whether you can......

Sorry but I think you're wrong.

Ticker comes and goes so to speak. Some 6 year olds are full of it (often because they are physically bigger) but it fades as their bodies and mindsets change. Don't mistake being loud and throwing your weight around as ticker, different thing altogether.

Some kids are mouse timid at 6 but become composed and strong willed as adults and hard as nails. The bookish sort who leaves home at 16 and turns up 10 years later having been an MI6 agent and tortured but not broken by the Taliban - I'm being dramatic obviously but you get the point. Remember "ticker" is purely a state of mind - we nearly all hurt the same.

This is why the Aussie stick with mentally gifted players far longer than we do - because they know that if these kids develop ticker they are potentially awesome.

So basically, "ticker" can't be coached where it doesn't exist but it can be coached out where it is hidden by a good coaching set up.

Well I haven't coached kids ever so haven't go a clue

At risk of sounding pedantic, that's not true; our perception of, and tolerance for, pain is influenced by a number of factors, including genetics, ethnicity and societal norms. A quick google search suggests that tolerance for pain has in fact been narrowed down to a specific gene, so when they square that circle, I'll volunteer for the research - I'm a complete wuss.

Having said all that, I tend to agree that 'ticker,' like attitude, fluctuates in young players and it's the devils own job to stay across that for a whole squad; some kids are like different people every week, let alone from season to season, and it would take someone cleverer than me to know how to manage that in a coaching situation.

The point I made about Neil fox was he was a rarity to make his debut at 16i said I don't think we've got a Neil fox . financial your just being argumentive talking about judgingwether kids of 6have heart or not,I coached lads from 17 to 19 by that time I knew whether they had the heart for the game.not often I agree with vast man but his opinion is nearest to mine,but eh at risk of sounding arrogant and big headed I've had 15yrs coaching top players at these ages and I'm finding myself tit for tatting with folk who in my opinion sorry are clueless on this subject. Bring on tha cavalry

I am clueless yes as I don't watch any of the games you do.
I take back the Fox comment. I agree I was just being facetious.
But your opinion of the players is actually a genuine question.

Who is best player you have coached & why ?

Interesting question, also what age group and where.
Genuine questions

Edit you are try scorer
you are agent xiii and I claim my £5




El Rey.

Richard Goddard... He debuted at 16 and looked a world beater in the making... What happens to a player like that?

Again a genuine question.

Some real interesting views on here, it's a shame it's hidden away in a thread about a team to face Leeds on boxing day.....maybe a mod with a bit of time on their hands could merge a thread together for academy past, present and future.....sure it would generate interesting debate as it has on here....?

I've a few thoughts/points to throw into the mix......

Firstly....I think in an ideal World we would all absolutely love to see a Wakefield team dominated by our own homegrown youngsters.....it worked superbly for Leeds and just recently for Wigan. Without any question of a doubt that is the way to go long term. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this one of the main things pointed out by the new regime, as a target to work towards a number of years down the line, hopefully playing out of Newmarket?

It clearly can't happen overnight....we need to start again and throwing big money at young players like Kaye, who although looks a real promising talent, still isn't proven in the top flight, isn't the way to go IMO.....taking a chance with youngsters like that can only happen when we are in a much stronger position squad wise and financially....I don't think we can criticise the people in charge at present though because with the new scholarship scheme and the way it's been set up they are clearly looking towards packing our team with hopefully quality youngsters in the near future.....

I've watched a lot of academy over the last 10-15 years or so and seen some quality young players go on to do great things in the game.....I've also seen what I thought to be real promising players disappoint and not kick on.....why is that, I honestly don't know? I am a firm believer though, if you're going to be a top quality player who will go right to the top then I don't think any club will hold you back.....I still think the likes of Ellis, Westwood, Brough would still have gone on to be the great players they are even if they had stayed with us their whole career.....the big thing for us in the future is trying to make them want to stay together as a team with us and challenge for trophies.....

A real good crop coming through the same year is such a rarity....just look at the excellent Leeds team that produced the likes of Maguire....Burrow.....Diskin....etc......we pushed them all the way that year and a couple of ours went on to do ok......how many times since have the power of Leeds brought that many quality players through to the first team at the same time.....Going back to players who look the business but don't kick on.....how good was Tommy Haughey that season!!....he was the best player in that league I saw by far....and that includes Leeds....he never made it like he should have though....was that Wakefields fault....I'm not so sure.....

Going back to our most recent successful side.....they were absolutely fantastic....playing great rugby and beat everything that was put in front of them.....we haven't beared the fruits as much as we possibly thought we could but we still have 4 of that squad in Annekin, Walshaw, Wildie and Trout....all who will have plenty of chances next season to establish themselves.....I see tryscorer bigs that team up because they beat the supposed best....beating Wigan in the final.....how many of that Wigan team are strutting their stuff in Super League at present though and doing better than our 4 in the first team squad? Should we criticise Wigan on that front? One of their best players in their team that year was Jon Molloy....look how he turned out.....that surely is another indication that a lot is on the player himself whether he steps up to the top level??

Keep the faith though because I'm sure that is the vision of those currently in charge.....a team made up of mostly homegrown players wearing the shirt with pride...it's what we all want.....our journey starts soon....

I'll answer Upton first mat Russell just signed wit warrington josh charnley ,ian thornley,Sam Powell, jack Hughes Logan Tompkins,jack murphyoff the top of my head all first team squad players ,saw all four games against Wigan can't ever remember Jon molloy though iv seen since he scored a try against us .best player I've coached would possibly be between Jason Robinson and Paul new love but as county coach for 4 yes there were numerousplayers who went on to make the grade including our present england coach Steve macmanarra hope that answers you briggsy I do remember our great side of the early 60s and I was a personal friend of your namesake, and his brothers don't and jack

Summit up with the computer briggsy should read don