Of course they are not that's why so many don't have a job. All of what you say is correct but it wasn't really what I was digging at. What I dispute is how anyone on here you and me included can honestly think we have a better grasp of tactics and players than the coach - and we are all guilty of it. None of us know the players personally or train with them day to day or know the game of RL like they do.

They may make mistakes but at least they are informed mistakes. Fans on the other hand fall into the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category. Hence we can enjoy a heated debate about tactics and players on here all day long just so long as we never actually believe we [uknow what we are talking about[/u - and far to many do IMHO.

As Wayne Bennett famously stated "if you listen to the fans you end up sat with them" never a truer word IMHO

I think if you watch enough of anything and pay attention then you are entitled to an opinion and it not be ridiculed. IMO Ellis was a decent foil for Aiton, but his main omission was that he didn't have a kicking game and Wood did - hence the choice for most of the season. The guy was Londons player of the year in 2011 - so he had something about him - and I was chuffed when we signed him.

That Wayne Bennett quote, whilst generally valid, does lead to some coaches steadfastly refusing to listen to common sense - resulting in them being sat with the fans they wouldn't listen to!

I think we need better than what we have right now, but I can see why, on balance, we thought it better not to retain Ellis - I don't agree with it though, nor the release of Matt James without having a replacement ready. Clearly us being stuck with Mellars has had an inpact on what we can do!

That will be us then, not all the other numpties

- Ill go along with you but only just. Because I honestly don't think we have enough in depth knowledge and any real understanding of the team dynamic. I know it annoys me when people from outside my work group come in every now and then giving half baked opinions. Despite the fact that most of the time they have no real idea what's going on.

As for not listening to the fans and get sacked is a bit flawed IMHO, I mean exactly which set of fans should he be listening to. It's not like we speak with a unified voice, in fact some sets of fans seem to have opinions that are probably the result of lunacy or inbreeding. For the sake of his sanity the coach has to chuck a deafy to all fans as he has no idea who are the sane and who are the insane.

Maybe not listening to the fans as such, and I agree - we don't know / see all the goings on such as who's training the house down / who's sulking etc, all of which will get thrown in the mix. I do think sometimes that coaches can be guilty of becoming focused on certain issues whilst being oblivious to others, but they are paid for a judgement and it has been made in this case.

I remember a conversation with Shane McNally during which he was trying to convince me that our club would be massive - if only we'd relocate to Wales. I pointed out that we wouldn't then be Wakefield anymore, but he wasn't having it. I like Shane, he's a good man (and he gave me this story to use at times like this), but he wasn't very realistic on this one. The other story about Shane was that players would be dropped if they parked in his space at the club - now that's not rational and I'm sure he'd deny it, but it's a good story!

Actually I think our winning streak last year coincided exactly with Ellis replacing Aiton in the squad. IIRC.

I don't know in this case but i will say that you'll see has you progress with junior RL that "face dosen't fit" does indeed have many faces within our game.

Its rife within RL at all levels and always will be, players come and go and its not always playing ability or budgets that decides this.

I don't for one minute think our club or our coach are any different.

It did and it didn't. The unbroken streak up to the play offs yes. However we started playing well before that and were winning games. Si they were both involved in the better rugby we played. I don't want to belittle Ellis in any way as he did a good job but he wasn't the be all and end all and he wasn't IMHO responsible for the winning street but just part of the machine.

It's not just RL it's life.

I myself am brilliant at almost everything I do but it's rarely recognised

I get that Al, but I just don't see how a professional coach would refuse to use a player who he knew to be better than the other options, purely out of spite; I can see how it might happen in some jr and amateur set-ups, but when a bloke is being paid and judged on results and performances, I can't see it being the case in all but a very few instances.

It doesn't have to be spite Bren.
Sometimes decent people go unnoticed in many walks of life.
The phrase about not knowing what you have until its gone etc, etc.
Also, Ellis may not be the best no 9 in SL or the CC, but whatever he was within our team
last season, it worked and tbf to the lad, he only got his chance last season when Aiton was out injured.
Therefore, it's easy to conclude that his face didn't fit with RA.

I find that very amusing from someone who has posted over 21,000 posts on a fans forum where opinion is expressed more than the average member on players and tactics.


Ellis passing from dummy half was very sharp and another 9 to bring on midway through a game is needed.

Hark at you

Thats fair enough, its not likely and i'm not suggesting thats what happened in the case.

I think the money Ellis was on was most probably the main reason he went. You don't need to be a qualified coach to see that his defence is better than Wood's and his distribution from dummy half is better than both Aiton and Wood.

Consequently, our limited finances and the need to reward some of last years team with increased deals and get a decent prop in, meant Ellis had to go to balance the books.

As the old saying goes one man dont make a team.I think if we could have had Aiton at 13 and Ellis at 9 we might have seen something good but saying that Washbrook was in good form last season.
Ellis is now gone so we will never know if it was him who made a differance or not as he wont get to step in again.
What we have to remember is no matter what the club have a budget to stick to and to go beyond that would be foolish.

I just can't see that Ellis was on more than Washbrook or Mellars who maybe should have gone instead? I think there was a hope that Wood and Wildie would have been able to cover the role to support Aiton but so far this season that hasn't happened. Hopefully that changes....

The way Washbrook played last season it would have been foolish to let him go instead of Ellis.As for Mellars I suppose when it comes down to balancing the books another club wanted Ellis and no one wanted Mellars so Ellis went.
lets face it we had Wood and Wildie in the formula too so it did look like we had cover thats providing balancing the books was the reason Ellis left.

Think Wrencat has a point about Ellis. Not been at the glamour clubs, so probably doesn't get the recognition he deserves. Was it Hull HR, Barrow, London then us. Did London sign him due to having a good season at Barrow and then we signed him off the back of his player of the season at London, so there must be something there. Shaun Lunt came from the Championship, didn't crack many pots, went out on loan to Leeds and has come back to be one of the best hookers in the league. Didn't Ellis tear a pec before the season started last year and by the time he was fit was down the pecking order.

I think like many others i think we should have kept ellis he plays the ball faster out of dummy half giving valuable time to the backs.But he wasn't an agar signing, and wether he rated him, or not when he came in i thought he took us forward.I'v already stated on here i'm not an agar fan but last year i ate humble pie.This season he's got rid of players and brought in his own men the teams his, some are not performing like last season he's the coach/expert [with all the facts as stated on here by some so let's see what you can do richard. Up the trin!

Wrong, most of my 20,000 post have been used to question the validity of posters who seem to think they are International coaches and post with such authority - I hope you're not one though I fear you are.

Well you should know mr expert

Just like the Vastman of old, strange how people change, btw i have just seen a pm you sent me months ago, what a strange chap you are ordering people what to do. You need to get out more as you have started to believe your own cack.

Tell you what go back to abusing people from the terraces luv, it's about your level. I'd say it's the same old you but you have clearly changed your name so I can't, going to have the manners to tell me?

In fact on second thoughts don't bother, you were probably just as boring then.

You are probably spot on there, also lets not forget that Ellis was signed by James Elston and Aiton was signed by Richard Agar who allegedly travelled halfway round the world to sign him, does not take a lot to work it out.