The no VAT on "memberships" is a little worrying. Didn't Ken Bates try this with LUFC season tickets and get his fingers burned? Or am I wrong about this?

In any event, a little concerned that we might found ourselves with a big (unpaid) VAT bill at some point in the future

This.



All we can do is support and move forward.

Thinking about it logically one would’ve thought the no VAT on memberships will have been discussed as part of the monthly meetings with HMRC, it’s not as if it’s been done on the sly. Having said that the club still ended up with a Winding up petition despite having monthly meetings with the taxman.

Only 4 posts and ripping into the club, asking for people to be sacked, are you some one who is bitter with the club, some one who is after the guys job, or just some one with a point to prove or other..??

You don't sack someone for making a mistake, especially when it is instantly corrected.
It must be great to be perfect.

I'll go with guesswork and hearsay.

Oh you're certainly a member!

You took your time?!?!?

Not the point, the club is at fault and any speculation is caused by a lack of clear info.
Some of the blind comments remind me of the bad old days when people dared to question the old regime.
We have a right, we have a duty to ask questions, and until we are top of the league and challenge cup holders I shall continue to do so.
Hopefully the club will learn a lesson, things will continue to improve and we will continue in the right direction.

I've been away for a few days and it looks like the brown stuff has been hitting the fan ?
Having read through the many pages of this thread is is astonishing that the club can allow a winding up order to be issued from HMRC, when it seems clear that they have neccessarily been on "best behaviour" since the new regime took over.
It has been clear for all to see that since Mr Glover took over the club appears to have improved in all areas, improved attendances, improved facilities record s/t sales for this point in the calender etc.
BUT, how can they allow themselves to be issued a winding up petitiion by HMRC.
These things are not thrown around like confetti or, drop on your doormat like pizza menus.
Usually there would be a reminder/ threat prior to any action and although it is obvious relief to all that the situation has been resolved, HOW could this happen ?
Most people that post on here have bought season tickets and are members of the 1873 club and buy merchandise and generally support the club in any we can and with the difficulties of the past couple of years there really should be some clearer comment from the club and firm assurnnces from Mr Glover that we are not in any way struggling as a club.
If there are indeed monthly meetings with HMRC then, it seems impossible that something like this could happen.

As some have already said, it is quite right to question the situation, especially with the present state of other clubs and with our own recent past.
For a simple guy like me, it still seems od that this was just an admin error.

Loving the thread on the mentalist forum, with bigalf in the role of lead investigator - CSI Cas, priceless!

A perfect summary of my feelings

In spite of the great attitude I see down at BV and the undoubted improvement on our position as a club, I would have to say you are spot on from my observations. Lots of well meant effort, much of it effective, but some of it very amateurish.

Ok..I'm prepared to give them a pass and take your point on the skeleton take over staff etc...but at 18 months, the pass is running out. It's been small bloopers till now. This is a biggy. They have to learn. FAST. They have to keep the info and good PR coming on this issue and, most of all, get the right people in place to manage the club. We have to grow from off the field before we can grow on it. I would rather see no more signings and a competent business manager in place than see a fiasco like this happen again...and some of you on here can try and minimise this all you like, it is not at all good or small.

After a few days of listening to what various people have to say on the matter, one thing that does strike me is that whilst we are all fans and want the best for the club - and that it is right IMO to question these matters, especially as a member of the ST committee (even if I don't get to as many meetings as I would like) - is that I struggle to think of any other private business - and only a small to medium enterprise at that - that has to 'suffer' the level of scrutiny that a sports club like ours does!

Whilst we all mean well, bloody hell we would complain if the grass was rolled in the wrong direction!

Every business has challenges - every day. Cash flow is paramount - if a big account doesn't pay on time, then you may have to limit what you pay out - simples!

Despite my moan earlier - and general frustration that this has happened, and in doing so has damaged some of the great work undertaken by 1873 - it's difficult to see why this seems to have opened Pandora's Box to all manner of criticisms and that, suddenly, lots of people see the club as failing or 'unprofessional'.

The fact is that the club is a 'work in progress', but that what we have now is a whole lot better than what we had before and I'll take what we have and be happy with it - warts an' all!

We HAVE a bright future - and we all have a roll to play in that!

It's very simple, we are all stakeholders in this business.
Until we are successful, we have a right to view our stake holding to be a failure.
Harsh I know, but excellence is hard to come by.
AG wants his investment to be worthwhile, and by that I mean successful.
He should be enthused by the fact so many people are so bothered and only want the absolute best.
Attention to detail is everything both in achieving excellence and putting in places the building blocks that excellence requires.
We are all mostly shouting from the rooftops when we do something right, equally when things go wrong we should be consistent and decry where necesary.
Sadly people may falter along the way that aren't up to the mark, that's the nature on and off the pitch.

Except that nowhere near enough people are 'so bothered' and of those that are, only a tiny minority are prepared to pay the true cost of the 'absolute best.'

As TRB says, it's a work in progress.

Well I think the club will have made a note about what went wrong, with the bill not being paid on time it was a mess up, and I'm sure AG and JE will know the damage it may of caused to flimsy/jumpy fans and to the Image of the Wildcats and they will not be pleased, but say we are going bankcrupt and calling for sackings is going over board, yes fans have a right to have a moan and their say and may it continue

We are customers not stakeholders. We can express opinion and take our money elsewhere if we wish.
We may be important customers as the market is small but that's all we are.

Of course we are a work in progress, but that shouldn't mean we should turn a blind eye or settle for anything less than our best.
That's what makes champions.

Never suggested either, culpability yes, and if we fail to deliver enough info to satisfy the public, let alone a statement that created more questions than answers, we get all we ask for, and that isn't good enough.

I disagree, TRB asked the question why are we open to such interest and speculation.
We are financially and more importantly emotionally attached to this club.
We should support with 100% conviction, and expect 100% conviction from all those entrusted in running the club, not paying HMRC does not display that to me.
I'm not for hanging and tarring people for such mistakes, equally I'm not for brushing things under the carpet.

You missed the point I was making - not that we shouldn't question and try and do our own bit to drive things forward - heaven knows I've tried my best to do so, and not always with the clubs blessing either - the point is that there is far more scrutiny of a company when it's part of a club than a normal business - and therefore both the good and the bad points are probably over-emphasised, when the reality (the levelled out graph if you like) is just a nice steady improvement.

As it was with the old regime, so it is with the new - there will be mistakes, but if decisions are taken with the right motives, then it is difficult to argue with.

I do agree though that we are 'stakeholders' - even as customers we are such - we have an embedded link between ourselves, our lives, our input into the club and the highs and lows encountered by it. I reckon we're more than qualified for the title!

I agree with everything you say apart from the stakeholder part. I understand that we are all bought in emotionally but stakeholder implies to me that we have some right, and we don't. We can influence simply by being a large group of customers who are bothered about the business but only in the same way you can influence the corner shop if we all boycott until they sell what we want.
I know it's just semantics but that is one of the mistakes people make that gets them so upset.
If you are part of the board or are a sponsor then you have more influence but the rest of us are paying for a service (being entertained or not).

Saying that I am as "bought in" as the next guy but I accept there is a limit to what I can change.

Well the £225 I have given to the club for next seasons tickets clearly makes me a stakeholder as currently I have had nothing in return for my £225 so therefore I am not a customer



From Oxford Dictionary
"Customer"
noun
A person who buys goods or services from a shop or business:
[with adjective
A person of a specified kind with whom one has to deal

"Stakeholder"
noun
an independent party with whom each of those who make a wager deposits the money or counters wagered.
A person with an interest or concern in something, especially a business.
[as modifier denoting a type of organization or system in which all the members or participants are seen as having an interest in its success.