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| Quote ="kinleycat"If the RFL want a reduced SL next time round which Lewes did mentionin an interview last year, the Merger ship is well and truly in dock taking on board fuel and provisions.'"
No it really isn't.
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| Quote ="PopTart"I do get your point about survival v supieror club and I'd love to see us at the top but:
1) Someone has to come at the bottom of the league. It doesn't mean they are bad, just not as good as the others that season. If we have a well run club and improve gradually, I'm ok with mid table mediocity.
Its not settling for less its accepting where we are.
2) I agree with the other posts that it is now a fight to the death. If someone really does have to suceed and fail in the "Calder" area, then only one will survive (to paraphrase from Highlander!). If we lose I'll still support a championship side. I won't just watch Cas cos they are in Super League.'"
I don't disagree with your sentiment, i just think that the longer we "survive" the further we stand still/go back, as others move forward.
You have got to be able to see this, as a non club related issue, which i concede is difficult.
The three independent clubs could provide a huge wealth of talent that could be streamed into a successful representative side at the top of the pyramid.
A team full of all the best players we have produced and were producing before the wealthier or more appealing clubs took them away. a team that could rival any other in SL and an opportunity for the people of the area could be proud of as it truly represents them.
Maybe its all a bit romantic, but i see it as far more doable than the slow growth and wish for someone else's demise option.
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| Quote ="vastman"No it really isn't.'"
I'm interested to know, why you think that is so certain.
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| Quote ="kinleycat"I'm interested to know, why you think that is so certain.'"
Because at the end of the day RL is a sport, and in the UK sports like RL have always been run on what the heart says not the head.
So in theory it's a merger is a viable idea, in reality it will destroy two good clubs (or clubs that survive as you say) and replace them with an unwanted monstrosity that no one wants - that will wither and die within 5 years IMHO. A ground share is more viable but clearly won't slake the RFL's and Clubs thirst to destroy existing and IMHO good clubs. Only in RL could reality and reason be so lost in clouds of bunk theory and delusions of grandeur.
RL has only ever had one enemy, itself.
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| Vasty - I couldn't have put it better than that. 10 out of 10 for eloquentcy and a hint of romance.
I totally agree with your statement. (P.S. do you have multiple personalities or does your shift between great pieces like the above and your other lesser works depend on the time of the month ?)
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| Quote ="vastman"Because at the end of the day RL is a sport, and in the UK sports like RL have always been run on what the heart says not the head.
So in theory it's a merger is a viable idea, in reality it will destroy two good clubs (or clubs that survive as you say) and replace them with an unwanted monstrosity that no one wants - that will wither and die within 5 years IMHO. A ground share is more viable but clearly won't slake the RFL's and Clubs thirst to destroy existing and IMHO good clubs. Only in RL could reality and reason be so lost in clouds of bunk theory and delusions of grandeur.
RL has only ever had one enemy, itself.'"
I agree with your final point, however that is not to say that a successful representative side could not be formed.
Many people would support a successful representative side if it were not a merged club, (they could co exist with some thought and planning) and would i am sure be supported by the RFL as it sorts out two issues for them with one stone.
Featherstone compete with fairly low income/attendances, so would the feeder Wakefield and Castleford clubs, and there is certainly enough support in the area for a successful club too.
People go to watch success that is a fact, and there is enough bedrock to support a successful club from a playing perspective.
Instead of losing these players to other clubs, as we do currently because we are too busy staying afloat, we should be doing all that is possible to keep them.
We've had fourteen years and both us and Cas are still where we were, with my proposed set up generations of players and supporters could enjoy success, with the present set upwe may not have generations of anything other than the last fourteen SL years of dwindling interest, failure, relegation and bankruptcy.
I'm in a strange mood today.
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| I don't get to many away games (maybe 4 or 5 per season) and all home games, but I could see myself watching CT play all their home games (in Castleford) as I do now, and I would probably go to watch the SL team instead of going to the CT away games most weekends - obviously dependant on fixture clashes.
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| Quote ="Tigerade"I don't get to many away games (maybe 4 or 5 per season) and all home games, but I could see myself watching CT play all their home games (in Castleford) as I do now, and I would probably go to watch the SL team instead of going to the CT away games most weekends - obviously dependant on fixture clashes.'"
I dont think this concept would work. IMO it would have to be all or nothing.
Lets say that both clubs have an average of 8000 supporters at their home games (say 6500 home fans each), that gives a merged club a possible 13000 fans, plus newcomers but, take from this figure an number of disillusioned fans who dont go for the idea.
In reality, there would be, in the short term, a net loss of fans.
If both clubs and the RL agree to a groundshare, there wouldnt be quite the same number of disillusioned fans, although this may depend on where the shared ground was situated.
Normanton would have been an excellent middle ground but, the opportunity for something to be built there has long gone.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"I dont think this concept would work. IMO it would have to be all or nothing.
Lets say that both clubs have an average of 8000 supporters at their home games (say 6500 home fans each), that gives a merged club a possible 13000 fans, plus newcomers but, take from this figure an number of disillusioned fans who dont go for the idea.
In reality, there would be, in the short term, a net loss of fans.
If both clubs and the RL agree to a groundshare, there wouldnt be quite the same number of disillusioned fans, although this may depend on where the shared ground was situated.
Normanton would have been an excellent middle ground but, the opportunity for something to be built there has long gone.'"
The net loss that could result could be offset by new supporters?
I take your point though, I think there would have to be a lot of discussions before we got to anywhere near guessing attendances.
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| I think Vastman is right, the merger ship has long gone. I cant even think of a name that would appeal to both sets of fans and more than that rugby league mergers have not worked in the past - so why do it again?
Also, the previous teams to have merged had no real rivalry with one another, Sheffield - Hudds, Hull - Gateshead - whereas Cas are probably the team we want to beat out of any game, its a total non starter for me.
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| Quote ="kinleycat"The net loss that could result could be offset by new supporters?
I take your point though, I think there would have to be a lot of discussions before we got to anywhere near guessing attendances.'"
I actually agree with everything you've said, apart from merger being the solution.
Anything that can be done at a merged club can be done at Wakefield or Cas now.
If more people came to watch Wakefield we would be better off. If we can market a merged team to get a bigger crowd we can do that individually at each club.
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| Quote ="TrinityIHC"I think Vastman is right, the merger ship has long gone. I cant even think of a name that would appeal to both sets of fans and more than that rugby league mergers have not worked in the past - so why do it again?
Also, the previous teams to have merged had no real rivalry with one another, Sheffield - Hudds, Hull - Gateshead - whereas Cas are probably the team we want to beat out of any game, its a total non starter for me.'"
The mergers worked particularly well if you're a fan of either Hull FC or Huddersfield and in the end Sheffield and Gateshead re-emerged.
What i suggested wasn't really a merger, as i would propose that the clubs remained, but would be replaced in SL only by a potentially more successful single SL club.
I am not opposed to the status quo remaining and i will support my club as best as possible, but it will just continue as it has largely for the last fourteen years IMO.
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| Quote ="PopTart"I actually agree with everything you've said, apart from merger being the solution.
Anything that can be done at a merged club can be done at Wakefield or Cas now.
If more people came to watch Wakefield we would be better off. If we can market a merged team to get a bigger crowd we can do that individually at each club.'"
Not IMO without some kind of benefactor.
The RFL would be tripping over themselves to help us financialy in this, which would propel the new club forward far quicker than what we could do individually and safely as clubs.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"I dont think this concept would work. IMO it would have to be all or nothing.'"
At the risk of coming across a bit Blairite, I think there is a middle way!
Kinley's idea is, as you suggest, spreading ourselves too thinly; however, rather than an all or nothing approach, I think that one 'super-club' consisting of a merger of WTW, FR & CT could be created, with one 'feeder' club in the Championship, used as a step on the pathway for young players coming through the super-club academy structure.
A merger would certainly result in a net loss of supporters in the short term - truculent old-timers and hardcore fans such as those of us who post on here - but over time, the new entity would, in my view, attract way more new fans than either WTW or CT could hope to attract in the same period of time, particularly as on-field success starts to come, which it inevitably would.
It will never happen of course but if it did, the resultant club would almost certainly have clubs like Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield looking nervously over their shoulders.
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| The merged team would have to be non-geographical in relation to the name. Trinity Tigers would do it. But could we sell Newmarket as geographically neutral?
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"The merged team would have to be non-geographical in relation to the name. Trinity Tigers would do it. But could we sell Newmarket as geographically neutral?'"
Trinity works well, given it's non-religious definition of 'a group of three things.'
Wakefield is also appropriate, given that we're all in Wakefield.
Therefore, the only logical conclusion is to call the new entity - Wakefield Trinity!
As for location - maybe the best option would be the first place to have diggers on site - and I mean diggers actually digging, rather than as props for increasingly desperate publicity shots.
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| Quote ="bren2k"Trinity works well, given it's non-religious definition of 'a group of three things.'
Wakefield is also appropriate, given that we're all in Wakefield.
Therefore, the only logical conclusion is to call the new entity - Wakefield Trinity!'"
Need to merge the kits though. Featherstone's blue, the white part of the Cas strip, and the red part of the Wakey kit.
You see, we can compromise.
And the fluer de lys has three leaves.
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| I think there is some mischief making going on.
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| I think you might want to run this idea past our friends over the hill before getting the new sign made
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"I think you might want to run this idea past our friends over the hill before getting the new sign made'"
I've already run it through the new clubs Minister of Information and Fully was absolutely fine with all the proposals.
I've also had the legals looked at by prestigious Castleford law firm Gronk & Partners, and they've signed everything off as legals and above board.
Have I missed anything?
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| Quote ="bren2k"I've already run it through the new clubs Minister of Information and Fully was absolutely fine with all the proposals.
I've also had the legals looked at by prestigious Castleford law firm Gronk & Partners, and they've signed everything off as legals and above board.
Have I missed anything?'"
I thought Gronk & Partners were a high profile RL Coach Recruitment firm???
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| Quote ="kinleycat"I thought Gronk & Partners were a high profile RL Coach Recruitment firm???'"
I understand that they also act on behalf of several RL coaches, as well as having a specialist libel department.
I've also taken an executive decision to appoint NGB4C as our overseas scout, specialising in the recruitment of ginormous foreign props; 6ft English midgets need not apply.
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| What about bald fellas with long hair?
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| Can I nominate Vinnie for customer relations!
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