Give over - Walmsley is one of the best 3 forwards in SL; KH is developing well and will definitely get better, but he's miles behind Walmsley.

I agree some people getting carried away. Can't agree about England though, nowhere near where he was early last year. Thought Allgood looked better. Allgood, Hirst are a threat to England as would Walker have been if not injured.

According to CC Walker could be back next week along with Arona. That's good news IMO

IMO Mullally was the best front row forward on the field for either team.

I'd have him back tomorrow

He was pretty good, but I thought the big guys softened us up and he took advantage so my credit would go to the big guys Cuthbertson & Garbutt. Good balance of forwards, TBH, but I think we would have matched them if we'd not lost Big Dave.

And played Huby

Despite all that's been said on this post about either the Leeds forwards or their hooker winning the game for them, the fact is WE could still have won the game had we been a bit smarter!
Like everyone I hate losing to Leeds and slightly more to 'Cas, but I'm over it. We aren't far behind Leeds and Cas just have to keep working and perhaps recruit a smart playmaker ourselves (not really 'hookers' are they?)

Correct, I'm surprised - actually I probably not - surprised at the amount of bleating on here for what was a 2 point loss after a 7 match winning run - seriously, all teams lose.

I think Hirst has done ok but the say he is better or even at the same level to Walmsley is stupid and just plain wrong.

Have to disagree, England and fifita when on form are our best forwards, I watched then come off the bench to batter Wigan, again allgood not doing the minutes, England averages 60 mins plus, and his defence is very strong, we look better when he is on with either Huby or big Dave, he's in top 3 for me, until others have the fitness to do more than 10-15 mins spells here and there.

Yes maybe not as influential as last season due to he was our only big forward and carried the forwards, so it's good to see others step up, next few weeks will see with big Dave in the stands, again IMO.

I stand by what I say. However I rate our entire pack tbh so the position I currently rate England is not a bad thing. He's still very much deserves his spot in the team - it's all relative.

Put it this way even if Fifita wasn't injured it wouldn't take a massive step up from England to displace Dave as number one .

That has to be good for the club - perfect opportunity on Thursday

Hope you don't think I'm bleating, thought we pretty much matched Leeds and if a few handling errors hadn't been made we could have beaten them despite missing players and losing Fifita. It's really nice to be watching good rugby and competitive games.

I'd like to see the stats for England - because for me, whilst he looks willing, he can also look a bit ineffectual; he seems fairly easy to stop and is often dominated.

Fifita is a law unto himself, and both Huby and Hirst have nice feet and the potential to offload; Allgood is a machine - he just goes straight up time after time. I'm not sure what England's USP is.

Stats according to SuperLeague website
Fifita:
Tackles 386
Marker Tackles 62
Missed Tackles 17
Tackle Busts 58
Carries 247
Metres 1899
Average Gain 7.69

Huby:
Tackles 362
Marker Tackles 31
Missed Tackles 23
Tackle Busts 21
Carries 207
Metres 1481
Average Gain 7.15

England:
Tackles 259
Marker Tackles 44
Missed Tackles 23
Tackle Busts 5
Carries 136
Metres 869
Average Gain 6.39

Hirst:
Tackles 199
Marker Tackles 30
Missed Tackles 5
Tackle Busts 7
Carries 94
Metres 697
Average Gain 7.41

Allgood:
Tackles 217
Marker Tackles 35
Missed Tackles 23
Tackle Busts 8
Carries 94
Metres 621
Average Gain 6.61

Arona:
Tackles 511
Marker Tackles 79
Missed Tackles 23
Tackle Busts 8
Carries 199
Metres 1281
Average Gain 6.44

Standout stats for me -
Fifita 58 tackle busts
Arona 511 tackles
That's 2 big misses for Thursday night, someone else needs to step up. England has the lowest average gain of all our props so needs a big effort from him in their absence to give the team a boost.

So it wasn't just something I thought I was seeing; he does seem to get stopped dead when he runs the ball in, and for a big lad, seems easier to chuck about than most forwards.

He's dropped off but isn't bad. I'm sure it's just a slow process recovering from injury.

They're all season totals which are nice to see but for comparison purposes you'd have to break them down into per minutes played and/or look at which times in the game i.e. Stats per 1st qtr/2nd qtr etc combined with stats per minutes played.

This

He's not the player he was last season, he hasn't been right since returning from injury, he looks like he's trying and is successful enough at times to be there or there abouts for the team sheet but he's not having the same impact.
I dunno why that is, it has to be related to his time off cos I can't think of anything else, he wouldn't get in the team if it was attitude or approach, so....I dunno

I put Englands form down to his injury. It was a long term one and when he initially returned he was getting beaten in the physical battle which was a rarity last year.

That said his last handful of games theres been a marked improvement and although still not back to his best he is improving for me and getting that physicality and impact back in his game.

On more recent performances he deserves his spot and for me he looks like he will be hitting his straps again come super 8s.

I don't really get this knocking players thing! England has had bad luck with injuries and at least he tries when he plays. He's a member of a very good squad and I think he should be allowed to find his form again without the inferences that he isn't pulling his weight.

My sentiments exactly

My thoughts also

His form has being improving each game since he came back, the build back up to 100% can take longer for different players (and also depending the injury)

Tomorrow is a massive game for us and I fully expect England to really stand up and be counted tomorrow

Timing, not easy to get back.

I agree with you, and as we all know you can interpret stats in a number of ways to make a point however the average gain one does take some of that into account and as I said his average gain is the lowest of the props.

Just looked back at last year to compare and discovered I had got England's wrong for this season. It should read:
England:
Tackles 259
Marker Tackles 44
Missed Tackles 23
Tackle Busts 5
Carries 136
Metres 819
Average Gain 6.02

Compared with last season where his average gain was 6.04

So actually his average is very similar to last year where most of us thought he did a really good job. Maybe it's just down to the fact that others appear to be making more yards this year that makes his stats look worse.

Having said all of that I know that he is coming back from injury and seems to be improving with each game so let's just give him some time.

When he was fit and in form last year, he appeared to be making a lot of yards and taking a lot of tackling, attracting quite a few defenders in to stop him. I thought he was very good at that point. As you say, he is recovering from injury. But he doesn't seem quite that player at the moment. There's no reason why he shouldn't get back there though