We needed to be more dominant in the forwards to compensate for their advantage in the backs, the younger Burgesses took a while to get going I thought. Johnson's kicking put a lot of pressure on us too. Still all to play for

Polite way of saying it went belly up from the minute Hill and Graham went off and the two Burgesses came on.

The two Burgesses together is perhaps not the best idea; I don't dispute their willingness to get stuck in, but neither have the threat or invention of Graham and Hill. Maybe a different rotation works better, with one Burgess and one of Graham or Hill on at the same time?

I like a barnstorming prop as much as the next man, but the Burgii can be guilty of trying too hard, and that results in errors - as we saw at the weekend.

We just don't have the quality in the backs. I think our pack matched theirs but we couldn't compete with their invention. Lomax did well but he should be nowhere near our best full back. Watkins is just too laid back and has yet to show anything at international level. Go back not many years and consider the impact of players like Gleeson and Carney at international level. More oomph. More fight. Sarginson is all effort and no result. McGilveray did nothing wrong but his height and size will always be a problem.

We've created the forwards but our backs are just not good enough. I can't see us creating a single headache for the Aussies.

The only plus in the long term is that for a long time now Australia has relied on a very strong spine based around Smith and either Cronk, Lockyer or Thurston. They won't be around for much longer and I'm not sure the spine is there of that quality. There's been a bit of a golden generation in Australia for a long time now, and with people like Inglis too, and I'm just not convinced that what is following behind is quite at that level. It's damn good, but not quite at that legendary level, as those players were legendary even in their mid-careers.

Im sure the quality is there to equal what will be moving on, there will be another Smith, Thurston, Slater out there I'm sure, it's the Aussie mentality .

Agreed, there has been for the last 40+ years and there is no reason for there to be a sudden stop to quality players rolling off the Green & Gold production line.

It struck me in the Aus - Scotland game, just how physically superior they were .
I know that Scotland have "lower grade" players in their first 17 but, it cant all be down to their warmer climate.
Presumably, it's just the numbers of players that they have to choose form ?

Yes more players but as England RU have proved over the years this alone does not make you world champs. NZ RU again prove the point that having more players to choose from is not the only way to be the best. Other than better coaching at all levels in Aus RL they also pick up the best Islanders and put them in a Green and Gold jumper asap.
The biggest problem we have is our style of play in SL, it is all about getting a quick play of the ball, scooting from dummy half and playing for penalties. Our crowds beg for penalties at the ruck. We rarely create anything away from the ruck. In Aus the refs don`t bother with pens for holding down, the players and fans dont mind and it is rare for a not square pen to be given. As a result the Australians create away from the rucks, they play rugby out wide, they have ball playing . In SL you often get 20 plus penalties per match , most for holding down or not square at the marker, often with two fairly equal sides the side that wins the pen count wins the match.

Don't think that might be because of the second ref though? The tacklers don't mess around as they know they'll be caught, and the tackled player doesn't flop about like a landed fish because they know they'll be found out. Here, the rucks are a mess.

Why on earth do people call it the'ruck'?
We introduced the play the ball to neutralise ' rucking and mauling'. That very expression for me ,having to endure it at grammar school ,epitomised the difference between 'rugger' and rugby league.

Just been reading the free Metro newspaper on the bus to work.

Callum Watkins was interviewed saying unfortunately, he hasnt reached his full potential whilst playing for England, something like 17 or 18 caps after making his debut.

Call me cynical here, had he have played for a less fashionable club, he wouldnt have been given that many chances.

For me, this is one of the problems with our national team

I think club snobbery does play a part here, but I also think it's down to our desperation for him to be that player as we just don't have the options in that position to challenge our antipodean friends!

True, but don't tell that to our blue and Amber neighbours, they're easily offended.

Watkins has hung on in there because nobody else is looking like stepping up - which is how we ended up with a 2nd rower at centre last year.

I suspect we all want Watkins to have the impact at international level that he does at club level. He is very talented in our league but I just don't think he has the aggression for an NRL type defence. In open space, he can be devastating. At international level, he doesn't get the space.

These things can be cyclical. In the past, we've often had great backs but the forwards have been bullied off the park. Now, our pack is a match, as they are mostly doing well in the NRL. Hodgson, Graham and Burgess are seemingly the standout front row in the NRL.

In the backs, however, from 1 to 7, Ryan Hall excluded, I would say they all fit into the "he's the best I can think of in that position". None are particularly great players.

As for Bateman, he had been playing in that position a lot for Wigan, and quite effectively, so it wasn't too crazy a selection.

Can't say as I've noticed Watkins having much impact at club level for the last couple of seasons. I think Bateman offers more than Watkins at any level.

Why exclude Ryan Hall? He's been going backwards for a while now.

Finished his try well last week. Didn't make any mistakes. Hall did alright IMO.

He looked slow chasing down the interception, losing ground against a half back



Seriously though, Hall is a great finisher and very good in the air and he's quite rightly been an automatic pick for the last few years.
He had a great world cup last time and the Kiwis and Aus looked very wary, almost fearful of him when England were in the opposition 20.

If Gale plays and is on the left, I'm sure he could create something for him.

Give him a run like he had last week and you'll know he'll bash his way in. He's lost a bit of speed but his finishing is still strong and powerful.

I thought Widdop went well, but òthers blame him for poor management. Williams entry may allow Gale to control the game a bit more. Will be interesting.

The lack of British centres is totally down to bad coaching and poor team building.

I remember being told by Ted Richardson that Kear told him that a certain Aaron Murphy ran brilliant lines and had great feet and would become a top SL centre. Neither JK or his new club have ever made any serious attempt to make him into the next Gleason imho. It's debateable if he had the size to be an international but he was a natural which Sargison and Bateman are not.

So a few years down the line we get a giant and mobile young centre in Lucas Wallshaw who although a bit rough around the edges was physically upto facing anyone. So what does Agar do? Spend a few seasons developing this giant into a top centre - no instead he looks only at his size and decides without any imagination he must be a S/R even though SL is not short of those. Then incredibly he plays him at prop ffs why why why. I know Lucas had issues but that pretty much destroyed him. Imagine if we'd managed to develop him properly what a monster he'd be and what a great partner to Johnson he'd be. Now we are pinning our hopes on a big Kiwi who is no better than Wallshaw and not as big! But hey he's played NRL.

That's just us and we feed off the scraps - I dread to think how many promising big young backs have been sacrificed on the alter of the big pack. If Neil Fox was a youngster today he wouldn't get a look in at centre - you're a big lad Foxy and boy you have some skill but you have a local accent so it's the S/R for you.

Poor coaching, lack of imagination and short termism and a total devotion to all things Australian rather than a lack of young talent is the problem.

Yeah he did but two problems with Widdop - one he's not that good a half back even at his best and he lacks pace. Also he's easy to coach against because he's well known to the Kiwis and Aussies.

Ratchford is just as good imho as a 6 but is uknown to the Aussies hence a level of surprise yet is well known to his teammates but again it's just assumed the the NRL player will be better.

Sam Williams has been superb this year. When we played at their place this year, we were on top and it seemed as if he decided enough was enough and carved a try out of nothing. He is quick, has some aggression, and has probably been the stand-out six this year.

George Williams slugger! I know some people don't like posters correcting others

It was one of those weekends!