Quote ="Tigerade"I know this is from the Casforum site but looking at this you can see how charitable Andrew Glover has been over the last 12 months. Well done indeed. www.casforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=23287'" Naturally where else would such news appear first. It is a large loss and I'm not entirely sure how it was managed but I've not gone through all the thread yet.

Quote ="Tigerade"I know this is from the Casforum site but looking at this you can see how charitable Andrew Glover has been over the last 12 months. Well done indeed. www.casforum.co.uk/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=23287'" Naturally where else would such news appear first. It is a large loss and I'm not entirely sure how it was managed but I've not gone through all the thread yet.

Wouldn't the loss be relatively large due to the season ticket money being lost to the old regime?

I'm sure we didn't receive hardly any season ticket money for that period, as he honoured those previously bought before he came in. he also didnt get much sponsorship money either, during this time he also payed off 600k the old club owed whilst making improvements to the ground (did not include the roof) inc improvement to bars, asthetics, tidy it up. Also paying for rent of the ground which is a large sum too apparently

I'd say the majority of new business lose money in the first few years with start up costs etc.

Obviously we don't want to continue to do this for a fair few years but I'm sure A Glover knew what he was getting himself in for.

It is a large loss but I would put this down to it been the first year of new ownership. Season tickets allready sold (about 300?) would account for some of this. Still - when you have an interest free loan of 450K from WY Windows it's very generous from Mr Glover and a sign that he his prepared to invest.

Season tickets & shirts, plus all other merchandise bought for xmas etc, was lost. Sponsorship had been paid to the old company along with two sky payments and the millenium magic payment. Throw in major investment in the gym & changing rooms, new shops etc as well as tidying up the rest of the ground then its not surprising that money was lost. Next years figures are the acid test.

It's one hell of a figure and may well explain the drive for large numbers of early bird S/T's
I pressume this figure includes the new stands etc, which would be a fair chunk of the loss, along with some payments made to some of the creditors of the previous regime.
The one sure thing is that, they will need to be the right side of the line for the coming season.
Get spending in the shop(s) folks !

You lot need to get real, its all doom and gloom and the ships sinking fast.

Stop making excuses or offering reasonable debate, in fact abandon ship and man the lifeboats.

It seems a few are scared of what the future holds for RL within the WF postcode and i don't blame them.

First of all I'm not alarmed or especially concerned.

However doesn't this just highlight how gullible even some seemingly intelligent fans choose to be. I have heard people say on here that we are one of the most financially sound clubs - well run - a roll model for how to run a club - utter bunkum. The rules, obstacles and limitations that applied and eventually took down the old club still apply to this one. So let's look at he obvious reasons why we have accrued what is a relatively small debt by RL standards.

1: Due to the sale of half price tickets the attendances have gone up. However the revenue has stayed at exactly the same as the old club were getting with half those figures. It's a trade off, raising fan base v raising income but the early bird is NOT a real money spinner.

2: Big investment in the stadium infrastructure, which is nice for us and appeases the RFL but cost a bomb and with NM hopefully on line not really needed. This investment does not give a return - sure a few more people turn up on the few wet days we play, but with the number of season ticket holders I doubt it even gets close to covering the cost.

3: Unknown but allegedly relatively large rent on BV.

4: No assets ie ground to raise loans against. However before the loons from over the hill join in I doubt there is a club left in the RFL that has any value left in that one. It's a hard world to run a RL club in at the moment.

5: A VERY expensive team that for some reason the club tried to sell to the fans as cheap and for some even more bizarre reason some fans chose to believe.

All this is IMHO reasonable (just) start up costs. However it's not sustainable and without N/M and people willing to pay the proper rates in future the club will eventually fold as sure as eggs is eggs - the next 12 - 24 month are crucial if the Glover story is to be success or failure.

All that said I'd rather be where we are than where Cas are because I reckon Steve Ferres would sleep very well at night if Castlefords debts were as low as 1.2 million.

Andrew Glover is the owner of a second string SL club - he can do his best but he can't work the miracles some seem to think he has or will - he cannot deny the laws of economics that apply to a club like ours. The honeymoon is over and the hard work begins. We need to be realistic, until we move this is still WTRLFC and the problems we face are still the same. For now survival with style is still where we are at IMHO.

I don't think it's an unrealistic amount of money to have lost in the first years trading for what was taken on, remember these figures are for the year ending 31/03/12 so none of the success of this last season has gone in to it, the cost of all the ground improvements and the £450k loan from WYW will be factored in to these accounts, not to mention the debts Mr. glover cleared (which he didn't have to).
TBH I would expect a massive turnaround in that figure for the following 12 months as even though we sold 4000 season tickets for last season we brought in and average of an extra 4000 extra paying fans which is a massive increase on the year these figures are relating too.
Extra investment from new directors on top with the chance that even more investment is on the way, I'm not at all worried by these figures, they just need to be put in to context

I think you have summed that up about right Vasty. With regards to Cas Tigers debt - we are about 2.5 million in the red this been built over many years.

I would have thought any one starting a new company is debt free has no commitments other than the ones that company wishes to take on?

These first years acounts are dreadful.
They wont take into account the capital spend on ground improovement the year after.
but what i find so confusing is the good news train comming out of belle vue of everthing wonderful crowds, sponership,well run club ? is totaly at odds with these accounts and as a stand alone limited company not sustainable.
once again we need people who have to stand up to keep rugby league in wakefield

Such as choosing to honour some of the old debt, no income from ST and yet still all the outgoings associated with running a SL team without that bedrock of income.
Your first four words are a joke, as is much of what you post, you remind me of a cas fan we had to ban????

I hope it make you smile then!

It is an acurate fact are they not allowed then?

The point i was makeing was thank god we have people who are prepaired to subsidise our great game as clearly the accounts show on there own it is not sustainable. but to pretend everthing is great is wrong.

Because there will come a time when there might not be people who can or will put their hands in there pockets.

What facts have you taken into account in making this first year assessment you are so disappointed with? Clearly neither of the ones I have pointed out.
1000 STs at £200 a throw would have helped
Not having to pay out old debt £100k (a guess although I seem to recall JE mentioning something like this at a forum).
Having to pay up contracts we couldn't afford and re employ others we could will have also made a dent.
Most wakey fans would know that!!

Most clubs season ticket monies pre season are taken up with cash flows i would think.to get to a stage before the start of the season when spirt took over? so at that time of year was never going to make a impact.

I was pointing out the choice to pay debts was a call and one that would not have had to be met with a new start up.

The same applies to contracts the new club had a choice on wether or not to continue with them.

All magagment decicisions! i am not saying are right or wrong just a choice.

Any business has to run at a profit to be able to continue to trade.so hopfully the decisions make since the first year will now bear fruit in our next years acoounts.




All of these were management decisions.

I don't think you have a clue.

It's no secret AG has a 10year plan that plan will be taking is into Newmarket in good health on a roll. I'd say this season will be our last for the discounted season tickets and we be paying full price for our last season at belle vue. Newmarket is not a quick fix but moving there with everything in place will see us reap the benefits and compete with the bigger clubs. We have a long term plan have cas? I know I'd rather be in our position than there's

haveing been a season ticket holder for more years than i can rember , sponser,and run my own business for over twenty years i think i might.

In stead of just throwing insuts around perhaps just a little thought would help.

Am sure both our objectives are a succesful wildcats.

No insults just pointing out the obvious and perhaps a little thought from you would have stopped you posting such a mind numbingly bad assessment of the account.
Nothing you've posted to date backs up either of your first or last points, so I will stick with my hunch that you are either just a sad cas fan or a reincarnate of a previously binned sad cas fan.
HTH.

clearly your grasp of accountancy is about equal to your metal capacity

For once I agree with you. Either this poster is taking a super negative stand because he refuses to see the obvious and predictable reasons - or he has an axe to grind. If the next accounts are 2.4 million then I'd be more inclined to worry.

I would expect this loss to stabilise this season, but Mr Glover will need to keep a grip of it - emotions run strong in this most unpredictable game and you can quickly lose the plot. I for one think the new regime still has a bit to learn - running a RL club is simply nothing like running any other business.

My metal capacity(?) is clearly far greater than your spelling capacity.
Now either post something to back up your assessment of the situation in the spirit of the debate or take a break.

For once??? Come come dear boy we agree far more often than either of us would care to admit.
The first years account was always going to be iffy, I agree if we continue to follow in a similar vein we have grounds for concern.
I thing the ST offers will slowly decrease, but it has given us chance to swell the ranks and will become a huge benefit in the future and hopefully a continued improvement on the field will move the reward more towards having a season ticket at WT and less from the perceived financial (cheapness) value of it.
The move to a new stadium and a continued steady overall improvement will make us a far more efficient animal and I see no reason why by the time we do move into NM we couldn't have at least 7-8000 ST holders.

My assessment is clear and unequivocal first year’s accounts are mind numbingly bad

And I would think just as much a shock to the management as to right thinking fans

The excuses for this are down to the running of the club.

That in its self doesn’t matter as long as there are people there to support in financial terms this and what I think will be these deficits.

My worry is and the vibes out of the club is that it’s unsustainable and more injections of capital our needed
That isn’t to say we can’t attract more investors and the support of Mr Glover has been fantastic. So far.

Looking back over the account for previous years the average loss was just around 100k per year? which of course is a million miles away from this first years results.
i don’t intent to enter into a mud slinging match and the reality is only next years accounts will prove or disprove which of us is right.