Ryan Hall's been getting lessons in defense from Blanch

I feel rotten saying this but I think Pat Richards is my favourite player.

Wash your mouth out with soap

I might change my signature picture to read 'King Kear is gonna get Pat.'

Brent Webbs fault, just watch it again.

brent went to cover for hall and the two clashed, key stone cops at its best

same old whinos..ganson needs to be sent back to national league..2 elbow going up for the jaw from ablett and no official saw it!! on report..i am very very confused!!

The Tomkins hit was as bad as it get for me, Ablett knew he was offside and went in to take him out, as the rest of the Leeds team tried to do all night. Do not blame Ganson though he was never going to be in the correct position to see it. The touch judge bottled the call for me not Ganson.

Champion teams play with class. McLennan did not send out a champion team tonight.

Ganson missed a knock on from Goulding diving for ball which ended up in a try. Thought he was poor tonight overall. Couldn't believe Danny Mcguire put a decent hit in to dislodge ball from Fielden.

Must say even though we are having a gash of a season and the weekends have become quite depressing
I must say I am liking this Wigan side.Everytime I see young Tomkins play the more he reminds me of Toppo in his youth and exactly the same in them days the harder he got hit the quicker he would get up and give it back by skinning them.

It looked bad, but I don't think it was intentional. I think he was going to clatter the ball, maybe dislodge it, but misjudged it because Tomkins was off balance.

Touch judges were the bigger disgrace. There was a shocking forward pass before one of the tries, and the touch judge was right there, and the tough judge was right in line with Goulding when he fumbled it as he rolled over. They all need to grow a set of swingers.

Hansen's try was superb though. 100% determination, and outpaced some fast men.

I disagree given the treatment Tomkins got tonight. I think Ablett knew he was offside as if you play the game it is tough not to especially when you are that far offside and had the intention of taking Tomkins out, just like the rest of the Leeds team tried to do tonight.

I don't disagree, except I'm not sure he intended to take him in the head. I think he was looking for a really solid body shot, when Tomkins would be standing still and not able to get out of the way, because the timing of the hit was superb (ignoring any offside issue).

Which is why i saw no reason for him to raise the elbow. I cant think of any situation why you would do that unless you were trying to cause damage.

Sam did not drop into the elbow. Albett clearly raised the forearm/elbow to his face.

Regardless of who a player plays for I cannot condone that sort of play. If you are going to take a player out take them out clean, for me that was a really bad cheap shot, up there with Micj Cassidy on Adrian Morley when he played for Leeds.

Cowardly and intentional for me.

Does he raise the elbow? Have another look, having seen it live but from behind Ablett, it just looked to be a well timed hit. I looked at the screen replay and then seeing it again from the side thought he was lucky to still be on the pitch. However, on watching the game again I agree with Slugger, it does not have any intent, a big well timed hit yes (albeit from what was a slightly offside position), but all Albett does his bring his arms in front of his chest but does not raise them above chest height. Tomkins stumbles forward after his excellent take and the timing of both means that Tomkins head is at chest height as Ablett comes in for the hit.

He does not raise his arms above chest height and for me that is the key. I don't think he intends to hit Tomkins in the face, is just turned out that way.

I will watch it again in the morning, but I have one question, why would Ablett's arm need to be anywhere near Tomkins jaw?

The 2 scenario's are he is challenging for the ball or making the tackle. in either case were it not deliberate he needs coaching on his catching or tacking technique. If attempting to make a tackle why would you legally lead with the forearm/elbow? If you were carrying the ball I can understand it, but I have never seen a rugby text book that can condone running into contact without the ball with a raised forearm/elbow.


Given the treatment Tomkins got all night I personally have no doubt the aim of the game was to take him out, but that is the sign of a quality player and he seems to thrive in that roll.

You are missing the point, Tomkins stumbles forward and loses his footing meaning his head is actual at Ablett chest height, and Ablett does not raise his arm above chest height. Ablett is clearly looking to put the hit on Tomkins as soon as possible after he takes the ball, he brings his arms to chest height looking to hit Tomkins head-on in his chest, but Tomkins has stumpled and takes one in the head from Ablett.

It was an illegal tackle (because he contacted with the head) and as such a penalty was given, but when it comes to a disciplinary hearing they are looking at poor technique or deliberate intent. I don't think there was either from Ablett, Tomkins took one in the face because he stumbled forward just as Ablett lined him up for what he thought was going to be a big but legal hit.

Don't feel too sorry for Tomkins, he is a great player and does get lots of attention, but he also plays the game the other way. You didn't see him deliberately kick the ball off the centre spot, twice, towards his own goal line after Wigan's last try to try and avoid a quick Leeds restart on TV... but he did!

I understand fully what you are saying regards the challenge and the attempt by Ablett to make the hit, my question is IF as you are saying Ablett was going to make the tackle, why did he lead with his forearm/elbow? Is this some form of new technique? This is also assuming he did not realise he was offside which is also a little hard to believe but potentially plausible, the position of his arm though regardless of the height if as you say he was just going to make a tackle is my issue, and I would like to see you explain why his arm was that in that position if he was looking to make a legal tackle.

Regards Tomkins, I am fully aware he is the master of the professional foul, but there is a major difference between a professional fouls and trying to take a player out, to compare the 2 is ridiculous.

Err, there is nothing illegal in barging a player to the ground, it happens quite a lot, in most games in fact!?! Danny McGuire put a great hit on Fielden which was exactly the same but legal because it did not contact with his head. So what was the difference between McGuire and Ablett? Nothing for me other than Ablett did hit Tomkins in the head, but I don't think he intend to and that is the point!

I was no comparing Tomkins sportsmanship with Abletts tackle, just pointing out he is gives as good as he gets and I you don't need to feel sorry for him... he plays RL not netball!

I agree to a certain extent he gives as good as he gets regards his ability to win a penalty, he is the master at conning the ref into giving a penalty for lying on when he wraps his body round the tackler, picked one up tonight again for that I think.

The last time I looked I am not sure a barge includes leading with the forearm/elbow. Shoulder fair enough. Full body contact is fine if it is just that, but trying to claim going into the contact leading with an elbow/forearm in defence is in every case at the best bad technique at worst malicious.

He just put his bumpers up for me and does not 'lead' with his forearm. He is lining up for the big legal hit on Tomkins and because Tomkins is at full tilt as he takes the ball he sort of goes low, stumbles, whatever you want to call it, and cops it full in the face from Ablett. I genuinely don't think Ablett intends to hit him in the face, he does not have any real previous for this sort of thing, but you are allowed to disagree of course.

Have a look at Danny's hit on Fielden a couple of minutes later and tell me what the difference is in their techniques?

As I said I will watch it again tomorrow, but for me in that situation I can think of no reason why you would go into contact leading with the elbow/forearm, now I may have had a few beers but I am still fairly sure the first point of contact was with his arm regardless of where that contact was it was still leading with the arm.

But I agree we are going round in circles so perhaps a good sleep will change my opinion of it, but i doubt it and I fully expect a 2 game ban to be heading his way at the very least.

He just ran straight at him leading with the forearm/elbow no attempt to make a tackle. Should have been a straight red. It's about time these 'barges' were outlawed anyone can just run in and clatter someone the skill is in making a tackle.

Thats how I saw it, shocker and the most blatant red card showing I have seen.
Not like Ganson to bottle it.

cant do with bottleless refs. why put it on report for some useless t**t on the "disciplinary" panel made up of(david blunkett, stevie wonder etc) to make their decision. Ablett will get a letter through the post telling him to sort his tackling technique out. Ablett shouldnt play again this season in my opinion.