It's been around for donkeys years and anyone denying it walks round with their fingers in their ears. I've had arguments with so many supporters of different teams that I wonder why I've never got a crack.

I remember David Barends when he played for Wakefield having monkey noises directed at him, appalling.

Agreed but relative to football we are a million times better. In football, it's organised and endemic and nobody steps in, in football mate you most certainly would have had a crack or fifty by now

Yep you're so right, but conversely when I've confronted racists at Wakey games the only people that have my back are my half a dozen mates. There aren't many police (compared with football) and the stewards aren't much help. As for getting cracked I've usually talked my way out of trouble, not had a scrap for 41yrs.

I too am a lover, not a fighter

Me too but the missus reckons I’m not very good at that either.

She told me the same

Boom boom.

I've had a season ticket for Barnsley FC for twenty years and sit in the East (family) stand. I can honestly say I've never heard a racist remark shouted out, although I have heard one or two mildly racist remarks ie "They've got a lot of s in their side", or words to that effect passed between fans in adjacent seats.

That may have been considered 'mildly racist' in the 70's; now it's just *actually* racist.

Although I do hear it at times at rugby grounds, I certainly don't think its rife.

Heard it down at Belle Vue, and it was targeted at the late Roy Powell, also heard it more recently against Jamie Jones Buchanan at Magic Weekend

Sorry, Bren, I'm going to have to be a bit of a pedant here and a touch long-winded.

Although I get your point, I really don't like this scattergun approach to these issues, mainly because they are technically incorrect.

Coming from a younger person, said comment would probably be a touch racist in its connotation because in that generation you simply wouldn't use such a term. For older people its more a rather clumsy description of a fact. It's just words if you were to say 'there are a lot of black players in that team' you wouldn't be accused of racism, unless there was an extra sub-text to the comment. It's basically only the use of the slang term 's' that gives it any racist connotation at all.

I'm not having a go at you personally but getting hung up on minor comments like that doesn't achieve anything IMHO, other than annoying and thus polarising peoples attitude. It forces people to get defensive about a throwaway comment probably intended only for the recipient.

The law is very clear on racism. It isn't illegal to hold racist views or for that matter express them, it simply isn't and for good reason, as it's an accusation as open to abuse as the abuse itself. 'Is it because I is black' is a joke line but it's also an accurate example of how the race issue can be twisted.

What is clearly illegal is to incite racial hatred and to discriminate on racial grounds. Redcats comment doesn't do either, it's ugly but it's not racist or certainly not in the eyes of the law. Truth is no one would ever be prosecuted and found guilty of anything for using that term unless of course, it was part of a wider conversation or situation.

What happened in Bulgaria was racist in every way and it's this fanatical level of hatred that we need to confront with every weapon we have, terms like 's' will disappear from common use within another generation. Those left using it will probably be guilty of far more severe forms of racism than that.

I'm sure plenty will disagree with me but its a free country so that's fair enough, it's purely as I see and understand the subject. As I say not having a go, just a bit of context, think I'll go lay down now

You're quite right in my opinion, Fisherman. The people who do make the remarks I alluded to are generally in the over 70s age group (As am I). Speech of that type was quite acceptable in their younger days and some elderly folk aren't quite as susceptible to change.

I'm not getting hung up on it either - nor do I think the OP was being racist when he repeated what had been said; just pointing out that thankfully, we've moved on societally and become more aware of what does and doesn't constitute racism. It may not be technically illegal to refer to people in that way, but it is wrong and in most circles, unacceptable - and I'm happy about that.

Spot on. The law sorts out the serious stuff (hopefully), changes in attitudes throughout society smooth the edges (eventually).

With one unfortunate caveat - the way that some people have campaigned for Brexit, by stoking fears about immigration - has sharpened some of those smooth edges; so that casual and overt racism has become much more part of daily discourse than it once was. The unacceptable has become acceptable again, thanks to some political figures, and overtly right wing media outlets like the Daily Mail. Not helped of course by the limp BBC, who in the pursuit of mythical balance, feel that to counter a discussion about the holocaust for example, they have to include a holocaust denier in the conversation.

It feels to me like we've taken some backward steps in recent years.

No one on here is being remotely racist so the discussion is a good one to have.

I have a similar issue with older friends and family using terms that in the 70s were actually a way of being polite about someone who is not from where you are but is not the case now.
"Coloured" is a good example. It used to be not so great to say black and coloured was a softer word, but when you then see it used as signs on gates to go through in America as "Coloured" and "white" it changes things.
Essentially you are saying: anyone who is not the same as me, which is what starts the issues in the first place and so that the language has to change....... you are effectively saying "Not white".
I don't think we should go back and name everyone who was alive in the 70s as racist like some of the modern snowflake society want to do, but equally education of those groups of people is important as on the whole, they don't actually want to offend anyone.

There is a phrase mentioned above: Mildly racist.
Making the point that the phrase used at Barnsley in the example is mildly racist is correct so that is differentiated from a hate crime, but while ever mildly racist is acceptable, it will perpetuate the harder racism that still sadly exists.

But at times there are blurred lines. Pop tart mentioned the word "coloured" and how it's now being classed as offensive. Meghan Markle often speaks of herself as a woman of "colour", doesn't that imply that she classes herself as "coloured"?

Of course having legitimate concerns about an additional million new citizens every couple of year having an impact on infrastructure, house prices, rents and creating an over supply of labour meets your definition of Racist. The assumption that Leave voters couldn't have possibly seen that without been brainwashed by the Daily Mail says more about your prejudices . If your someone like yourself who questions the educational level of the electorate that disagrees with you I see why can come to that conclusion. Accept your side lost the debate and move on.

Calling yourself something because you are part of a group who suffer from racism doesn't make it ok for people to label you with that term.

In a less obvious way I'm bald and I went to a comprehensive school. I've no problem telling you that.
But if someone started saying bald people were all thick or all the same as a particularly bad bald person I would be upset.
Same if one of my friends from public school called me the comprehensive kid in our group.

It's just how the term is used.

Like I say, it's not that it is wrong so much as allows people to use it in a much worse way.

On the same theme I kinda have a problem with the MOBO awards. Great idea, but can you imagine if someone started a MOWO award?
The way to resolve it isn't to stop the MOBOs, it's to make sure all music awards are fair and everyone has the same opportunity.

Nail on head with that one PT, there’s a lot that could be classed racist to a white white person, for instance, the prison where I work has a paper delivered that it solely for the ethnic prisoners which I know causes some heated discussion between the others. Every body has an opinion about racism, brexit, immigration just that some decide to make it known to every body else and that includes which ever side of the fence you stand.

Sparkles is the worst example of someone dining out on the race card. You’d be hard pressed to know she had any black blood in her especially as she insists on straightening her hair, the only real African trait she has.

I seriously doubt that poser has ever suffered a moments racial abuse yet she’s weaponised it to suit her purposes. She’s made it an issue in her life when it simply isn’t and that must truly pee of people who suffer the real deal. That’s my gripe with the race argument it ends up being taken over by opportunists like Markle and that EDL bloke.

I was going to say Farage but he’s not a racist imo he’s a nationalist, there not the same though it’s a fine line, though they can be just as dangerous.

Finally blaming it on Brexit imo is a red herring. These divisions existed long before the referendum and would have surfaced regardless, do people really think people voted on a whim or out of ignorance? They knew exactly what they were voting for and would do it again, people who think otherwise demonstrate conclusively the arrogance of the Liberals!

I voted remain but only just, I fully respect those who didn’t, very few of whom had any racist motivation at all.

Alas you are way off with her.
She has had some serious racist abuse, and I mean criminally serious racism not mild racism.
And she is using her position to highlight it. Nothing wrong with that for me.

Every time I read/hear someone is upset about about race,gender,politics or whatever the topic is that day, I always remember what my dad used to say to me, as I profoundly deaf kid growing up on Lupset in the 1950s 60s wearing a huge battery pack amplifier and ear phones the size of dustbin lids I got a bit of stick from other kids, dad says to me “Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
I just wish some people would take the same view, and before some of you have a go at dad, he fought with the BEF, got back from Dunkirk just 2 days before the end of operation dynamo. He was a good man, that’s why I use this username.

Your dad is a real hero mate. No one would really have a go at him.

The sticks and stones thing is fine in its intention to make you feel better but unfortunately words are very powerful and can cause way more damage than sticks and stones.