He was pretty average for us and no better than our other half options. Fair play to him now but he didn't perform to his best at us for one reason or another.

I thought he looked good for us when he played, but whenever he paired up with tim smith it did not seem to work.

Agar chose to keep smith and let john go. Rightly or wrongly

I thought he looked ok for us without standing out but for whatever reason the partnership between him and Tim didn't work. Agar could see this and switched Sykes into the Halfs and from then on the team clicked so nobody can have a go at Agar for doing this.

I will be honest I dont think in the time Isaac was here anyone would say he looked like an international player but sometimes some players just excel in certain environments and I think he must have found one of those at Penrith but not here, he is not the first import to not really settle over here but go back home and rip it up.

I think we also need to point out that we have also taken quite a few players who have not exactly done well at previous clubs and they have done well for us.

starts at stand off for new zealand in the anzac test on friday but couldnt make our team

Yeah but have you seen who is missing for Newzealand. Its a case of If you cant have an holiday in the algarve then Grimsby is better than nothing. John is playing reserve at the moment as well.

So with what you saw at Wakefield, would you have selected him to start for New Zealand?

He's not getting selected for Penrith and has only been selected due to a dearth of injuries for the Kiwi's, its not quite the headline grabbing story its made out to be really.

Agreed, its not as if Vince Mellars has been called up or Steve Southern has been selected for Aus.

Still it's not like we have been flush with players who have represented there national teams recently. Whether there's injuries or not. It's not like we have players 2nd and 3rd in line for national jumpers. Tells you about agars ability to spot talent, shame he's no idea how to nurture it and give it a chance. Treats our own young guys the same as he treat Isaac

You say he cant spot talent yet he was the bloke that spotted him in the first place and brought him over. He was an Agar signing but it just didn't work for him over here, we cant blame Agar on this one.

No you'be misunderstood. I said he has the ability to spot talent but is unable to improve and nurture a players game. That's why we have players each and every week underperforming and still get picked. I think Agar suites a director of football role rather than head coach

IIRC John was a recommendation from Steven Kearney or someone else of similar ilk.

Phew! Thank God we managed to dodge the "Agar did a good thing" debacle.
That was a near miss.

My mistake for misunderstanding.

I still think Agar can spot and nurture Talent though, look at Tim Smith and Paul Aiton, nobody would have picked these 2 out but Agar did and turned them into arguably 2 of our best players in the time they were at the club and earned us quite a bit of cash when thney were sold.

Anyway back to John, he always had talent but it just didn't work for him in SL

Aiton was very sought after and we were lucky to get him, I don't think he realised his own worth.

Smith less so though I don't really think you can say he was nurtured, more found some form.

You're dead right about Aiton vasty - he came to us on a pittance and stayed because he was loving his rugby; and that's straight from the horses mouth.

As for Smith - if a player is crap, it's Agar's fault, but when he's good, he's 'found some form?'

I liked Smith - I thought his strengths netted off his weaknesses for the most part, but I can't believe that the coach played no part in his purple patch.

Agar played his part I agree, but Smith was an ex NRL/Wigan player so he only needed to find form and a Coach who understood him - however he hardly needed nurturing that's for 17 year old rookies. Pedantic maybe but true.

Isaac John didn't gel within the team......

That's the key with Smith though. He was low on confidence and had some personal issues.
Coming to Wakefield helped him because Agar treated him well and managed his place in the team well. That's a big part of his job.
He didn't have to nurture the talent. He was already the best we have had for a while but it needs to be brought out.

Proof of that is how it is going for him at Salford. That isn't working for him if you ask me.

I agree entirely and that was my point about Agar being able to get players to perform.

I dont think Smith will still be at Salford next season.

Always felt a bit sorry for Isaac.

He lingered in the reserves here for a long time til Injury got him his stint in First grade. He played about ten or so games ( can't be bothered checking the exact amount ) but he had the rising Junior Star Shaun Johnson waiting to take his place next to James Maloney.

Just when John looked like he was going to be a genuine first grader ( played really well nice field kicking, composed player , excellent pass )........he got injured and that was the end of him.

I was surprised he didn't make it here. Many on our forum took it as proof he was no good.

Funny how things work out.....Ivan Cleary his old Warriors coach took him back as a fill in option of course....John got to experience the joy of being the architect of the NZ Warriors heaviest ever defeat....62 -6 rout by Penrith I think John scored two tries....certainly set up many more assists.

Indeed the same discussion and reflection.....postmortems about what might have been were exorcised on the NZ Forum after that game.

Isaac was solid without being spectacular at the World cup behind a beaten Cook Island Pack.

Again he finds himself dropped for the replacement signings for Penrith.....Luke Walsh couldn't keep his other spot of course.......

John as others have said finds himself called up with Kieran Foran out.

Still he was picked ahead of Rising superstar Junior Warrior Tuimoala Lolohea.....and I'm glad for Isaac that he didn't have the indignity of being replaced by the next rising star before his time.

The Kiwis are going to get slaughtered....the replacement hookers ( Isaac Luke injured ) include young Savila Havili ( one NRL game ) and the man he is teaching to play hooker in forty eight hours of lessons ( secound rower and Kiwi debutant Ben Henry )......

Young Ben was on the radio this morning saying he was appreciating the lessons in how to bend his knees and where players like to receive the ball......I can't even begin to imagine what his opposite Cameron Smith would make of that interview......

We had a decent scrum half (whom I sure you know) that was suddenly dropped to the bench
as replacement hooker. I bet Agar did not even give him 48 seconds of coaching

Do you mean the already international level hooker or the one that had played as much at hooker as scrum half for us before Agar?

Why this obsession with Isaac John. He wasn't good enough when he was here. He was given a decent run at 6 and found lacking. Things improved significantly when Sykes took over. It seems he has improved now probably due to better coaching as many of our ex players do when they move to other super league clubs. All this thread proves is that coaching at Wakefield is not up to standard and it wasn't up to standard when three drives and a kick merchant Kear was here. We spend a fortune on bringing average antipodean over but won't pay what's needed to get a top quality coach who can turn average players in to good ones.