TRB has said it all above but if people are not prepared to trust us I for one can find something else to do with my time. Alternatively if you think you know what needs to be done then come and take over from us, I'm sure we'd be happy to hand over to you.

Oh, and by the way, if you want you can complete the application to have Belle Vue listed as an Asset of Community Value, it should be reasonably straightforward as I have done most of the spade work for you.

Both Horbury and Ossett have invested in their sports facilities in recent times as part of their refurbs and others have likely done the same to differing degrees. Whilst they don't have all weather pitches most have large grassed areas fine for coaching RL and they will use this everytime, they are not going to be paying out to use some other facility, they just haven't got the money thanks to the government cuts.

The same would apply for local clubs. Many would probably love to use 21st century 3G facilities but will use their own ground and facilities purely down to it being cheaper for them to do so. I don't know the figures but with rising insurance costs, rate and rental costs and the amount of kit needed i would imagine it isn't cheap to run an amateur club these days. Is anyone actually signed up to use them?

My question and worry would be how much would the trust be charging for the use of the facilities at NM? They can't just let them use it for nothing, they have to make enough money to pay its way and that won't be cheap on a large complex like the one initially planned. Do the figures stack up or will it end up becoming a noose around its neck, racking up the debts until it is no longer viable? Would a basic plan of a couple of basic pitches up there with changing facilities etc and a refurb of BV be a better option all round? That would be my choice now.

The idea is that whilst the Trust will own the facility and the club lease it, the club will effectively run it, for the majority of its operational time. Therefore there should be minimum input required to operate the Trust as the governing body - we are all free!

Foot-stamping in response to people's cynicism isn't very helpful; especially when the cynicism is aimed at everyone other than the volunteers doing the hard work.

It would certainly help if more information were forthcoming - there are a lot of oblique statements and platitudes in response to genuine questions, but no hard facts; and you're not helped by the fact that the bigger players in this are maintaining a stoney silence - Sir Rodney Walker and the club itself are absent from any discussions for example, which seems strange. The only protagonist to have made their position clear is WMDC, and Cllr Box was unequivocal in his dismissal of the whole project.

You can't blame people for surmising that things don't look good.

It can't though be cheap running a proposed development the size of NM. If Wakey are only paying a peppercorn rent as has previously quoted then where will the rest of the running costs come from given many of the potential users haven't got a spare two bob to rub together as i've mentioned above? I hope our business model is just 'build it and they will come', thats a sure fire way to ensure the financial problems stack up.

And similarly, you can't blame us for being human! You cut us, we bleed, but here we are, sticking our necks out to say that things are happening and no-one wants to listen! I understand that, but here's the rub:

We can't tell you why we can't tell you about what we can't tell you!

It's as simple as that! I have tried to impart what I can and at times I've overdone it and the feedback from what I've put does get back to people - hence my earlier post directed towards Peter!

Things are changing, it may not happen in weeks, but I suspect something will come out in the next few months, but I ain't going to risk what we might have as it may lead to a smile or 2 today but a lot of frowning and head scratching later as to where it all went wrong!

This I not about ego, or 'I know something you don't, nana nana', it's all about a delicate negotiating position, which will all be explained in time!

Question - do you trust us? If not, then we are not the right people and someone else should do this job, if you do, then try and show a little understanding for the position we are in - cos it's seeing posts telling us all there is no hope and we are doomed, when we are dealing with this directly and saying all is not lost!

For those who say we have nothing, I repeat again:

We have a site with PP
We have an agreement that states we get a stadium in return for PP
We hope to have ACV status in BV shortly

We don't have any money just now, but we have a great mentor in Sir Rodney, we are working closely with the club, we believe the council are under some pressure to assist and we can cause delays, if not rejections, on NM should we need to.

It may now seem corny, but it's true - Together we are Stronger - divided we are not.

It was all costed through at the time. It wall need to be reviewed after such a long passage of time, but a new facility, with everything up to date and meeting all regulations, would cost less than the constant drip feed of money to keep BV going. Plus the rent demands of the current landlord are ridiculous!

I don't want to get into a long protracted debate over this because it's slightly off topic but .

Horbury school was almost totally rebuilt about 10 years ago and as such their sports facilities are relatively new but they still don't have a running track, a full sized or even half size 3G which should have been included in any new build in the last 20 years.

Ossett have 3 Tennis court sized 3Gs which are OK for 5 aside football and small drills but are no good for whole team practice for sports like Rugby and football. Other than that their main changing rooms are the original ones from when the first sports block was built decades ago.

Crofton like Horbury is a relatively new build yet still doesn't have modern facilities and a full size 3G.

Wakefield City No
Cathedral No
Thomas a Becketts No
Kettlethorpe No

All the above have grass fields but some are a long walk from the main school block and the changing rooms. None have floodlighting so the grass fields are no good during the winter due to poor light not to mention the mud, frost or standing water due to poor drainage.

It goes without saying that none of the schools have barns with indoor 3Gs, in fact the only indoor options for most are Victorian age sports halls that have seen better days, one or two schools excepted ie Outwood.

Like I said earlier, Municipal facilities in Wakefield are beyond a joke, simply awfull in terms of provision with only Thornes Park Athletic track and the new swimming baths being the exception.

Schools facilities are very poor in comparison with schools from other Districts across the country.

Professional sports stadia and training facilities are perhaps the poorest of any City hosting pro-sport across the country. Belle Vue is THE oldest RL stadium in the world and looks it (much as I love her). Wheldon Rd is no better and Featherstone despite improving massively is still well behind the likes of the LSV in terms of capacity, access, facilities, seating or any other facet you care to compare them by.

Ossett Town and Ossett Albion are just about fit for the level they play at, Unibond D1 and Unibond Premier at a push.

Sandal RU have a small stadium which like the Ossett football clubs is just about fit for their level but wouldn't be accepted as appropriate should they gain a couple of promotions, they too do not have any 3G provision.

Wakefield Hockey Club at College Grove have by far the best facilities of any sport in Wakefield but they only achieved that by hosting one of the International teams during the 2012 Olypics which gave them access to funding, it was nothing to do with WMDC?

Peter Box and his Councillors need to be all over this embarrassing situation instead of hiding from it!

Yours Faithfully

Extremely Embarassed from Wakefield

As TRB has replied and given his opinion, I'll give my disgruntled opinion. I've been involved in SWAG in a very very minor way compared with TRB, Vasty and Jack in the box, I get incredibly frustrated at the pace these things work, but also get frustrated at the apathy/cynicism, you only have to suggest to people on this forum to get involved and I'd guess 99% will have any excuse not to.
I'd love to but I'm too busy
I'd love to but I'm young and have other things to do.
I'd love to but I'm old
I'd love to but I live too far away.
Sorry but i've seen it all before.
Never have I made a suggestion of help and had a reply of, yeah good idea, what can I do.
So please, don't get irate when people like TRB and Sandal cat etc are working their butts off 'cos it really is irritating.

Well I work at Horbury Academy and I can tell you now we do have a half size all weather pitch, the Academy is 7 year old and for the running track this is marked down parker road fields when needed. Horbury has good sports facilities including a international sports hall and gym plus MUGA

Is the half sized all weather a 3G?
Is the running track right next to the school and is it tartan or even asphalt track or is it just lines marked in lime on a grass field

So what we are saying is the Wakefield area has plenty of perfectably acceptable sporting facilities bar a sy new stadium (i notice a decision on Cas' will be made before the end of the year) and maybe a couple of 3G pitches which much of the target market for using these probably couldn't afford to anyway. Not that bad then really, glad you cleared that up.

If that's what you think is being said then crack on and be happy about the Cities sporting provision.

What's actualy being said is that Wakefield is decades behind in terms of sporting provision whether it's Municipal, Educational or Professional.

I'm born and bred Wakefield and would love to be proud of the City in terms of its sporting prowess but the truth is our successes are historical. That isn't likely to change unless we start providing fit for purpose facilities for the youth of our City and we do something to protect the Sports Clubs, Rugby & Football, that offer inspiration to young kids

Obviously it isn't perfect and could always be improved but neither is it as bleak as you make out, otherwise nobody would be taking part which patently is not the case. And who exactly is going to pay for all this fantastic sporting provision you so desperately desire? Please don't say the council, they are having to make cuts left right and centre as it is. Yes Yorkcourt should deliver on their promise and yes the council should be pushing them to do so but other than that given the constraints they have then other areas probably take priority right now. Anyway enough from me on this, it is boring me to tears. Ultimately it comes down to will YCP stick their hand in their pocket and pay their way. I hope so but i have a feeling they will continue to string this along, play us for fools and nothing will ever happen. Time will tell.

The point I'm making is that sports provision is poor, not none existant, it's very poor in comparison with other Cities, Towns and even smaller communities than that.

Why am I making this point,
Because Peter Box, despite Wakefield's poor sports provision, thinks it's not important enough to take his time up. He seems to think that Wakefield as a community can afford to have him, the Council Leader, shrug his shoulders and say "not my problem" in relation to YCPs wriggling out of their obligations.

That's my main point!

Out of interest is the developments planning permission full or still at a lower grade at this point?

If the section 106 isn't legally binding then there isn't actually an agreement though is there? It's not actually worth the paper it is written on. What there really is a perceived attempt to have the wool pulled over peoples eyes (including the s.o.s) which may take a legal battle to resolve. Costly and time consuming for everyone.

All the ACV will really achieve is buy 6 months of time if the bank wants to sell. Have they indicated that it is going to be put up for sale anytime soon? As if so then time on this really is of the essence and it being a 'few months' before any info comes to light may be too long. And if covenant on Belle Vue has been confirmed in place by the council anyway what difference does it make if NM is the No.1 target anyway? We cannot be kicked out in the meantime. Another reason why I would urge making a decision one way or other on which scheme is wanted and go for it. My call would be BV but the people closer to the workings would have to make that decision.

Think we can agree on the point about the 'esteemed' Mr Box. I don't expect the council to be throwing money around on sporting development at this current time but i don't understand his reticence to support the scheme and help get the development built when it is going to cost the authority zilch? Unless of course, knowing it will also likely end up at Eric Pickles door, its success would impact on the hope of another club getting their own scheme built just down the road......

I was never in favour of Newmarket. Too far from where most supporters live. It may have resulted in a slight increase in away support due to easy access but we were falling in to the same trap as Salford who have alienated a lot of home support so crowds have been underwhelming despite megabucks spent on the team It's Belle Vue or the end of Trinity as far as I am concerned. Hence I was one of the first to sign the e petition.

Just a small point of order here.

Although the access at Salford is horrendous, they have just about doubled their attendances at their new ground.
Ok' there are other factors as to why their crowds have grown but, although a new ground would take some getting used to,
it would be a massive improvement on what we currently have at BV.

Well I dont agree with you, gates have not got much better at all.At the willows they were getting three and half don't see much more

Wouldn't mind betting that any extra fans at the AJ Bell stadium are away supporters what find it far more access'able, especially Wire fans'.

Spot on old lad

That and the major investment of cash they got at the same time leading to some big name signings joining. That spiked interest and boosted their ticket sales. Without that influx i reckon the crowds would have been down.

It's a shame Trinity didn't/couldn't get in on the massive regeneration of eastern Wakefield that is City Fields. I reckon the development is crying out for a show piece item such as a new stadium.

Just had a quick look to see if they have gone up or not. This year at the new stadium they averaged 4587, the year before 3178 and the first year 5,666. In 2009 at the Willows they averaged 4,467, 2010 4,166 and the final year of there 4563. They had a boost in that first year at the new stadium but then had those financial difficulties and this year it's around what it was at the Willows. Small sample size mind.