And again...

Give over and stop insulting our collective intelligences, your trolling - I don't blame you but at least be honest and cut the indignation stuff.

LOL Supercat was right, come on man.

Sorry thought you meant Adeytroll

Been reading some of Adeys post for a few months when looking at the Bradford situation and he's deffo bitter towards us lot. His usual line was i can't stand those i told you so wakefield fans trying to make us see sense when it come to going into administration.

Some people can't grasp the fact that a saloon door swings both ways





its a fact.

From memory, the main piece of advice offered by Trinity fans to Bulls fans was to pay their donations into an Escrow account and thus prevent the Oldco from wasting much needed money, throwing it down a black hole.

I personally was told by numerous fans that Bradfords situation was not anything like Wakefields and I should save my advice.

I'm sure the old BoD at Bradford were very grateful for the half a million pounds worth of donations.

As someone said earlier, Bulls fans were in denial and didn't want to accept that they were in the same hole that Wakefield were in and therefore they resented the advice.

They were right about one thing though, the Bulls weren't in the same hole they were in a deeper one, the Grand Canyon of holes!

After witnessing your town hall clock performance on your own board I have only one hope,that being that you remain true to your final paragraph.You changed your opinion/loyalties faster than a vote on x factor to anything that might present you in a picture as someone "in the know" or with the "inside information".Anybody with any sense saw through your Paul Cullensque thousand word claptrap including many of your fellow Bulls supporters.I would venture to ask if your such a financial genius why are you wasting your time here when you could be sunning yourself in Monnaco ? But I digress,the truth remains that yourself and Bradford Bulls have one thing in common,Neither have a ounce of credibility left in Super League. A wise man on this board once said "Just because a dog is a good barker doesn't make it a good dog. It's a open forum and I respect your right to post but I would check my diary if you told me it was Xmas on the 25th of December.

So you're not a fan then???

Adrian,

You did indeed help us in setting up the Wakefield Trinity Supporters Trust and I and the trust are gratefull for this and I did acknowledge the fact on this Forum.

I think that whilst some fans advice and comments were not helpful the majority of Wakefield fans who gave advice were trying to be constructive and supportive of the Bulls and its fans in particular and were giving advice based on our own bitter experiences of appeals from the Club for cash and then administration.

I recall you saying that the RFL had purchased the lease of Odsal to save an iconic stadium from predatory Developers. You even said that there were plans to make it something on the lines of Twickenham and be the national home of the RFL. You were advised that was complete garbage and that the Bulls were in serious financial difficulties. You failed to accept this but then again when we were in financial diificulties we also went into denial.

When the financial predicament became known and the Club appealed for cash (I think it was £0.50m) our advice was not to pay the money over the the Directors who had got you into the clag as all it would do would be to pay off Directors loans before the Club went into administration. We were supportive of the Bulls Trust as we further advised fans to pay the money into Bullbuilder so that when the Club was placed in Administration you would have £0.50m to invest in the new company and the fans would have a stake in the Club and have a say in how it was run. I seem to recall that you met with the Directors following which you advised fans to contribute to saving the Bulls rather than place it in the Bullbilder, something that now appears to have been a waste of the fans money.

I am sincerely gratefull for the help you affored me in establishing our Trust and if my recollection of the facts above are incorrect I apologise but please dont come on here pontificating and providing advice when your own advice within your own Club seemed to be flawed or it certainly does to us.

Please don't be bitter against this Club for feeling that you were treated very differently to how we were treated when we were in administration because you were.

Our own position is that the monies owed to HMRC have been paid and that the whole affair was a result of a misundersatnding and there is no reason for any concerns. Well that's what our Chief Executive has told me and whether you or anyone believes that or indeed hopes it is not true is their choice - only time will tell.

I and the Wakefield Trust genuinely wish you and all at the Bulls the vey best with your new owner.

Another example as to why this site needs a "LIKE" button

Well said Ian.

Adrian - You might have considered it lecturing at the time however, many people, myself included, were just frustrated that this advice was so easily dismissed and (as Clan also points out) we were told that the Bulls situation was nothing like Wakefield's and to butt out. Of course, hindsight (which I admit is always 20/20) has proved that the situation was indeed the same (actually, yours was much, much worse) and that 'you' clearly should have followed the advice given. While I think most would not want or expect an apology, a little more contrition wouldn't go a miss now would it?

Just to add something else to this thread, one of things that lots of people seem not to be questioning is HMRC's role and whether they have got things right and acted in a reasonable manner?

My own recent dealings with HMRC have proven to me that they are just as prone to making errors as any of the millions of companies they deal with.

I won't bore you with the full details but I have spent the last couple of months amicably disputing what they think was a £46 short-fall in the corporation tax my company owed. The long and short of it is that in the end I decided to concede and pay the additional £46 (I still they they are wrong BTW) because the cost of continuing to dispute it would outweigh such a small amount owed . So just under a month ago I paid them by electronic transfer. I was therefore just a little surprised to come home from holiday to find not one, but two letters, dated just 2 days apart, threatening me with the bailiff's for not paying them. Apparently their records say I haven't paid... they are of course wrong.

So they do make mistakes as well and are far from perfect themselves!

Should not have been allowed to happen. 'Oversight'. not good enough, sorry. This sort of thing should have somone employed by the club stuck to that issue like glue. Paid it may be; inspire confidence it does not.

Yep...here we go again. I can't believe it. I've read the apologists comments...there is NO EXCUSE. At best accounting incompetence, at worst, we are in the doo doo more than we are being led to believe. Ranges from worrying to frightening. FFS

I don't mean to be confrontational in these comments Sandal Cat but you say there is no reason to be concerned then list all of the reasons that concern me massively. If you are receiving monthly visits from the revenue, how TF do you have an oversight? I'm sorry it just does not add up. Yes, we seem to have made progress as a club, or so I thought. Once again, true to the form of my lifetime, we revist rank incompetence. I will stick with the club, I always have but sometimes, Lord, I ask why.

I wish I could share your optimism Tigerade. It ain't good whichever way you look at it

Totally agree and cannot believe the light way that some people on here are treating this. I am dismayed, as you are. To me, this makes me suspect that we are pretty much on the edge financially. This sort of thing happens when you are in debt and are paying creditors hand to mouth as the cash comes in, last minute. I think the club needs to do better than a statement that sounds like the fast show sketch with the Tory polician at the end on the garden gates explaining how he got caught with his trousers down in a men's toilet.

Totally agree and cannot believe the light way that some people on here are treating this. I am dismayed, as you are. To me, this makes me suspect that we are pretty much on the edge financially. This sort of thing happens when you are in debt and are paying creditors hand to mouth as the cash comes in, last minute. I think the club needs to do better than a statement that sounds like the fast show sketch with the Tory polician at the end on the garden gates explaining how he got caught with his trousers down in a men's toilet.

Charlie, when I first read this thread I was as concerned as anyone. I've been through this situation many times before so yes I was worried. James Elston contacted me before I could contact him and explained how the situation arose but because of the sensitive nature and the bodies involved it cannot be aired in public.

Am I satisfied with the explanation and the fact that I've been told that the "debt" has been paid - well I have to be, I have no reason not to at this point in time. I have heard from people that we are experiening cash flow issues and that creditors are not being paid but at the moment they are just "tales" - I've been hearing the same stories for the last 30 years or more - they may be true, they may not, I don't know.

All I know is that the current regime have been doing what seems to me to be an excellent job up to this set back. If we are experiencing financial difficulties there is nothing you are I can do about as we have no shareholders in the Club, something the Trust had hoped would be offered to fans when Andrew Glover took over so that Supporters could have a stake in the Club and a say in how its run. That still remains an aim of the Trust.

If the Club is in financial difficulties and not paying bills and creditors it will eventually be "found out" but up to that point I'm prepared to give Andrew Glover & James Elston the benefit of the doubt both as Chairman of the Trust, a Sponsor and Fan in my own right and if Trust Members feel that the Trust should not be supporting the Club I'm happy to stand down and let someone else do the job.

All businesses experience set backs, its how they deal with those set backs that defines them.

Is it 'typical Wakefield' or 'typical Wakefield fans'? Non story for me but some fans are never happier than when they think they've got something to worry/complain about so they can knock themselves out with this one...

IMO they make lots of mistakes, some small, some large. I am currently disputing with them over something as simple as my tax code. I have been in the same job for ages, with no real recent changes to my personal or work situation yet have had 5 different tax codes in the last 9 months. Each time they change it it is because the previous one had been calculated incorrectly.
I know this is not exactly the same thing but it just shows how poor their systems are that they cannot get this right. They have all the information but keep changing their assessment of the situation.

I'm not saying that the club have not made an oversight, they obviously have from the press releases put out, but it could quite easily be on the back of a mistake/re-assessment of liabilities made by HMRC in the first place.

Nice get out clause from Elston there.

I read it as Elston told Sandal Cat the reasons and he agreed not to air it in public?

exactly how I read it.

Thinking logically about that it would be very hard to imagine the club has found itself in money troubles after just 18 months or so. Add to that we've just had a very successful season on and off the pitch and in the first season AG was here we obviously had a low salary due to player quality and had a decent enough attendance. If there is money troubles we'd have seen signs of it around the place, with player's not getting signed with the likes of Amor, Sykes and Poore going elsewhere . AG even spoke about the importance of running the company as a viable business in the early bird advert, where he talks about wanting to know what money we have to spend next season and not wanting to spend money we haven't got, so it's very hard to imagine anything more than a cock-up.