This thread seems to be running at a tangent.

There’s a group who are totally indebted to M.C for saving the club from oblivion, then there’s a number of posters totally hacked off with the treatment of Big Al.

I’ve no idea what happened regarding “Bottle Gate” & to be honest, I really don’t care, I just want the club I’ve supported for far too many years to be successful.

Let’s be fair, it’s been a crappy twelve months being a Wakey supporter, but in the scheme of things, that’s par for the course, & that’s just the die-hards. It’ll take more than a mini revival to get many of the floaters back.

I have the upmost respect for anybody who takes on a Rugby League team, but some are more minted than others, the bloke at London has lost millions, but obviously it must be a drop in the ocean. M.C on the other hand, is not in his league so the gamble he has taken deserves big raps

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However, whilst the club has achieved its goal this season by staying in the elite league, some of the comments from the Chairman make me feel like his hearts not in it in the long term, which would be a shame, as the glimmer of hope we see right now looks like it could be snuffed out in an instant with some of his comments

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I'm not a fan of the 'if you think you can do better, feel free to have a go' attitude; it may not be intended to sound so, but it can be perceived as petulant and childish. I run a company employing 900 people and turning over tens of millions - I make unpopular decisions that people object to every day of every week and I have never, ever responded like that, even if their attitude riles me. Aside from the perception mentioned above, part of the leadership role is to inspire confidence and buy-in from stakeholders; dismissing their concerns and creating the impression that you're one dig away from throwing the towel in, achieves the opposite in my view.

All that said - I have the utmost respect and gratitude for what MC has done for our club - without question, he saved us and appears to doing his level best to secure us a future; now that we're out of the 'clinging on for grim death' phase though, perhaps it's time for some softer edges and a bit more fan engagement?

The club needs a front man. Someone that can engage, communicate, and promote the club , the sooner the better.

Bren, I have to keep reiterating this, there is still an element of 'clinging on for grim death' we are not out of the woods yet. Can't seem to get that message across to people.

As for a new front man. At what cost and who's paying??

These are genuine questions. A lot, not everyone, keep expecting the club to speculate with cash it simply does not have, on the premise that you have to speculate to accumulate. This happened last week. I asked what happens if it doesn't work, and nobody could answer that?

Personally I'd like a club living within its means.
If that means we are always in the second 8 and no chance of silverware then so be it.
I'll still be paying to watch MY team play rugby.

I understand that completely - I welcomed the clarity when you explained it last week and as far as I can see, people have got that message. I don't see anyone advocating a return to the boom and bust, smoke and mirrors approach of the Glover/Elston era - that would be a disaster.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the new front man idea either; I'd just like to see you/the club engage with fans a bit more and be a bit less edgy in your dealings with supporters - I'm sure you don't intend it, but some of your communication is prickly and creates the impression that you're close to throwing in the towel; not the best way to inspire confidence in your stakeholders. Even if you do actually feel that way, its probably best not to let us know.

As for the speculate to accumulate argument - I don't think I ever put it in such simple terms, but there is a reasonable case to suggest that if you want to get us out of the 'grim death' phase, some element of paying it forward will be required; I wouldn't advocate spending willy-nilly in the faint hope that something works and we hit paydirt, but as in all things, the absolutes of an argument are not always the only options available. Spending some money to make more money - if done in a structured, planned and well monitored way - is not the same as a Glover style, 'pay now, worry later' approach. My suggestion was that a marketing professional be engaged to do some of that work - you confirmed that it was in train and I welcomed that news - do you have an update by the way?

I hope this doesn't appear negative; if it does, I've got it wrong. If there is any criticism, it's from a critical friend who has the same interest as you - a club that is vibrant, successful and respected both within, and outwith, Wakefield.

Very sad that a man who cares enough about the club to risk his house and shun cheap gimmicks in favour of financial stability and a man who cares enough about his club to work tirelessly for decades for related charities with no gain for himself can't share the institution they both love. I only know al from what others have said and I'm willing to accept their view as fact as to his lifetime commitment to the club. Likewise they'll appreciate I trust MC equally based on his financial sacrifice and willingness to front up and speak his mind over the bulls and their attempt to sympathy vote their way out of a valid points deduction. Ironically, whether they're great blokes or complete tools, they can still be right and wrong over bringing in a plastic bottle, or apologising for stewarding alike. In my humble opinion, I don't feel the chairman is responsible for the individual actions of a steward and if there's blame, there are certainly middle men who should be taking responsibility before him. I do feel rules apply to the greatest fan or first time visitor alike though a right to discretely exercise a one-off caviat to smooth matters over could easily be applied. Personally, if I'm wronged by a member of staff in a business I tend to berate the individual involved rather than extent blame to the entire institution and even if al's grievance is legitimate, I think it's misplaced to lay it at the feet of the chairman, who like the majority of people on here, only knows what happened via heresay and 3rd party recollection. And if I'm honest, even if Carter WAS completely to blame, would I offset that against the financial stability, order, honesty and pragmatic running of the club we currently enjoy? Then yes, sorry. I don't feel that makes me rose-tinted or naive. I just feel you can't have everything you want in life and should sometimes be grateful for what you have. What we have is a club in a situation we would have bitten hands, wrists and arms off for this time last year. The gates are open for fans like al to come and enjoy said situation as part of the club community they helped build. I hope they can stand side by side with rest of us, including the chairman and do just that because we're weaker without them but together we're stronger. It's up to them.

El Rey hasn't asked for opinion on this nor is he discussing on the forum.
It is other people casting opinion on that subject. Some know him, most don't.

While ever the conversation is about "customer service" at Belle Vue I'm inclined to keep it running but we can't really have a crusade for Al on here. It's not like it is a legal issue so no problem to the forum in general, I just don't think it is very classy so may call an end to it if it goes too far.

Good points.

However I'm a great believer that if you don't tell people what you think they are are doing wrong, perceived or real then they have no chance to answer or rectify the situation.

I suppose I shouldn't have zeroed in on Al tbf as I don't know the full story and it was a wider issue than just one poster.

You need the wisdom of Soloman to run a club like ours and as I defended Ted because I knew what a personal toll it took on him I'm more than willing to accept that MC and Co are truing their best - but like Ted it won't always be as good as it could.

Just to push on a bit I like Bren don't go for your "step aside" stuff anymore.

You may have believed it once but I reckon the club against your best efforts has got under your skin. If it hadn't I don't reckon you'd still be bothering with a club based in a small city you don't come from.

Don't worry you're not alone, quite a few have fallen to that one - myself for starters as I'm not Wakefield born. Toppo and Andy Kelly were the only Wakefield lads to ever really make the grade as Coaches with Cas lad Kear IMHO the best and who clearly still loves the club. Ditto great players of the last 25 years nearly all of whom are not from Wakey.

I think you care more than you make out and I reckon all being well you want to see it through - you may have other motives (suggested by some in the past about all CEO's not just you) and so long as they don't damage WTRLFC frankly I don't care.

You need the diplomatic skills of Kissinger to crack it with RL fans and it's a big learning curve - all I'm saying is that sometimes you have to accept that the real world doesn't always apply on this forum or at the ground - best of luck on that one

Sorry Bren, I haven't explained myself properly on the old'speculate to accumulate' scenario .

If you physically have 0 pounds. How do you attempt to try something that involves an element of cash upfront for a return later?? Because that's what we face. We never have spare cash??

And yes we are still looking at the best way to solve our marketing dilemma

I suppose it comes to borrowing money but I suspect Trinity’s credit score doesn't make pleasant reading.

Is it correct that next year the full cap is covered by central funding (subject to any deductions Trinity have to take due to advanced payments last year)? If so would there be any scope to take from that pot to build the marketing of the club (I can’t imagine Trinity would be up to the £1.8m cap limit).

I love certain elements, I hate others. I will always love the game of rugby league, so whether I'm here or not I would still watch the game from amateur up to super league etc etc

Reason to carry on. I see an opportunity to reclaim some of the money I have put in over the last 3 years. Not all of it but some of it. I've had quite a lot of enjoyment at times that money couldn't buy. At the same time, it is my pension pot and my kids future that I've been spending. So I think a little of it back isn't to being too greedy. I've retired once. And I will retire again once my kids are thru school. I'm afraid the lure of Portugal, is just slightly more then trinity. Sorry if this sounds un-positive in any way. But I've not lied yet, and I dont intend to start now.

We've a balance sheet that shows a negative of 2.5 million. We couldn't borrow a cup of tea!

It's slightly more complicated then that. The full cap is covered by central funding, but part of it is to go towards community projects and to fund the academy. And no we won't be at 1.8 m cap

Fair enough.

A safe pair of hands for a few more years and a stadium or stadium upgrade will do me - oh and no relegation… not much to ask is it and you can have your money back with interest for me unlikely though that is

To risk censure but I must agree with your reference to Portugal or more accurately the Algarve. It is indeed a lure that draws me back several times each year and yes it is at the expense of watching Wakefield and I am a season ticket holder of many years. I guess like me it is the golf that draws you back and the food so yes I understand why you cannot commit indefinitely to Wakefield because if I don't and I have watched them over 30 years why should a relative newcomer to the club.

All we ask is that during your tenure you do not let the club become an embarrassment again to the supporters and the rest of RL. If you do that, then you can consider your tenure a success, we as supporters do not expect trophies at Wakefield (it would be nice) but we do ask for a club to support.

New motto - "we're in this together" - sounds good:- wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/car ... r/2014/08/

New motto - "we're in this together" - sounds good:- wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/news/car ... r/2014/08/

I have been asked by Al's Wife just to add this, as she feels that people need to know a little more about what has gone on.

Im Al's wife. There seems to be a lot of posts regarding the incident which has lead to Al no longer attending games at Wakefield Trinity. Al was removed from the ground at the Wigan game at home for entering with a plastic bottle of orange juice. The club were made aware by two well known fans and contacted Al that week. Al had no issue with been removed from the ground but had and issue with the behaviour of the stewards towards himself. They were extremely cocky, arrogant and intimidating in manner at the time. The club arranged a meeting with Al to discuss this (and i emphasise the club made the first move). At the meeting CB and Head of stewards were present. Al explained what had happened and CB/HS said this matches with the steward report on the day. Al only wanted an apology from the club on behalf of how he was treat by the stewards, He had no issue about been removed from the ground if he had broken the rules. He was told by CB/HS that in there opinion the stewards had done nothing wrong. (I would like to add during the meeting HS told Al that he should be grateful to CB because of how much money he and MC had put into the club, !!who actually says that to a life long supporter!!) Following the meeting Al has decided that he can no longer continue to support Wakefield Trinity, If they are unable to support him. I can assure you this wasnt an easy decision for AL, although at the end of the day his pride is more important than Wakefield Trinity. Following Al's decision his family and extended family will be supporting him. Finally, if the club can afford to lose 10x season ticket holders not just next year but for years to come.

Yet again i would also like to add that the club have held meetings with at least one other fan. And after the meeting got heated they apologised for the behaviour of the stewards. I know this wont make any difference but i feel this needed on last post, and also feel people need to know that the club will not show you support like you support them. "We're in this together" just isnt true.

This is true, and me and snowie were the fans who went and reported what had happend, its not good loosing fans, its a sad job all round

Two thousand quid lost for one single word not being used "SORRY"

Its nuts mate, hope MC and Al can get back round the table and sort it out

this had all happened prior to me entering the stadium but was shocked to hear what had happened, hence the reason why I went with you to reason with the club, on talking with Chris he was going to let Al back in the stadium but he had made his way home and chose not to return as didn't want another altercation with the same steward which was a wise move.

there seems to be too much pride and stubbornness to nip this in the bud, can't believe this is all over a bottle of pop and an over reacting steward

willing to sit with him and work this out if it was to happen, Al is a great guy and I have a lot of respect for him but I have also seen the hard work that has been done behind the scenes at the club and they too should also be given the chance to rectify the mess of previous seasons

Stewards should be accountable for their actions, and members of the public should and must have the right to complain. The club have handled the whole situation badly if the comments made are true. Its crazy that this situations been allowed to escalate to this level.

Your right snowie, a lot of hard work from MC and his team but this as got out of hand,MC i think needs to contact Al again just to see if they can sort this mess out, i think it can be done