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| If I live to 100 I will never see a worst performance from any professional team than the one I saw against London enough said
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| Quote ="El Rey"How do you compare the two seasons so far and the two coaches.
Last years aldi budget squad v this years highly paid bunch?
Serious question.'"
Now we've have played everyone once I decided to go all Phil Clarke and have a quick look at last seasons results against superleague sides (i left out the cup game v donny) compared to this season at very similar times of the year. The extra game last year is due to kicking off the season against Cas at Millenium Magic. As we haven't played Leeds in the league yet this year I included the cup game.
2011 - 13th May
Played - 14
Points for 246 - ave. 17.6
Points against - 397 ave. 28.4
30 points or more scored - 2
30 points or more conceded - 6
2012 - 6th May
Played - 13
Points for - 224 ave. 17.2
Points against - 376 ave. 28.9
30 points or more scored -3
30 points or more conceded -8
So going by the stats for all the extra investment in supposedly better quality players our points averages are marginally worse than last year up to press and despite not getting a tubbing yet (although if you take fridays missed kickes into it then thats a tubbing in my eyes) we have conceded 30+ more often. Of our own high scores this year we haven't got past 32 yet either. And just as last year we are down the bottom three of many of the key stats, meters made, clean breaks etc.
Now last year tailed off badly in the last third of the season, something that has affected us for the last two or three years. We have to hope that the reverse is true this year otherwise there will be a lot of disgruntled fans about.
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| Quote ="Theboyem"for all the extra investment in supposedly better quality players'"
Serious question, not just aimed at you.
I've seen a fair few people on here make reference to the 'fact' that we're spending significantly more on players this season than last; what is that opinion based on? I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere, apart from John Kear having the odd dig on Sky.
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| Quote ="El Rey"So, do you feel we'll get nine wins this term and how wil we compare with the spankings.'"
No I don't think we will, probably around 7 but I also don't think we'll get the spankings we got that year as well. I said at the start of the year that we'd finish 10th and I still reckon that's about right.
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| Quote ="bren2k"Serious question, not just aimed at you.
I've seen a fair few people on here make reference to the 'fact' that we're spending significantly more on players this season than last; what is that opinion based on? I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere, apart from John Kear having the odd dig on Sky.'"
I've wondered the same as well.
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| Quote ="bren2k"Serious question, not just aimed at you.
I've seen a fair few people on here make reference to the 'fact' that we're spending significantly more on players this season than last; what is that opinion based on? I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere, apart from John Kear having the odd dig on Sky.'"
James Elston has said that this year we are running with a 1.3 million salary cap, rising about 200k a year to the end of the franchise period. It was part of the application. I believe by the time we exited administration our cap was just under a million and didn't rise much through the course of the season.
Its not just the wages though but new extra investments things like team meals, improved training equipment & aids, improved player welfare through medical staff, massage & sports psychology etc. Overall the costs have increased by quite an amount and i'm not sure that the performances have followed suit.
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| Quote ="Shifty Cat"No I don't think we will, probably around 7 but I also don't think we'll get the spankings we got that year as well. I said at the start of the year that we'd finish 10th and I still reckon that's about right.'"
Well at the moment 7 is a figure i pray for, i never really thought we do much better than 10th myself but up to now i feel a little let down with most of the performances.
Fingers crossed it improves.
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| Quote ="Theboyem"James Elston has said that this year we are running with a 1.3 million salary cap.'"
But did he also say what the spend was in previous years?
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| Quote ="bren2k"But did he also say what the spend was in previous years?'"
He only mentioned that it was under a million for last year, seasons prior to that i'm not sure. I'm seem to remember a figure of 1.2m for those but could be wrong. The cull came when the financial difficulties came to light at the back end of the 2010 season.
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| Quote ="bren2k"But did he also say what the spend was in previous years?'"
I read somewhere that last years spend was between 700/800k.
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| Quote ="Theboyem"Now last year tailed off badly in the last third of the season, something that has affected us for the last two or three years. We have to hope that the reverse is true this year otherwise there will be a lot of disgruntled fans about.'"
If this season tails off in the last third like it did last season and worse still the previous season, I dread to think what some of our performances and results will be.
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| There is a need for us all to stay positive as the squad won't change until the end of the season and we know we have weaknesses in the halves and the front row.
Next week we'll field our best 17 (except for Wilkes missing) with Lauititi & Kirmond in the second row and a fitter, stronger Southern on the bench with Mariano,Wood and James.
John will be back at 6 with Smith and we'll turn the clock back a few weeks for inspiration when we nearly beat Warrington away and remember that we have the ability to compete! Warrington also have quite a few injuries and we've got them at home
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| Might as well add +2 to our total now then, the games as good as won.
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| Quote ="Trinitythefuture"Might as well add +2 to our total now then, the games as good as won.'"
Yes I know there is positiveness and then there is going too far..... but Warrington will have it tough against Catalan and we'll have had a week's rest (and its at home!) so hopefully it will be competitive.
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| To be honest i wouldn't play anyone who isn't 100% fit against warrington, if that means Ali or Southern sit out another week so be it. We need to be aiming to finish top of our little 'group' and with Cas and London following on then i would be aiming my player prep for those ones. Maybe try a couple of things against the Wolves to see how they go. Give Wood a run a scrum half, try Walshaw again in the second row to give the pack some size and give Trout some decent game time. Maybe give Motu Tony a run on the wing to try counter Briers' kicks to the corner. See how a few things go in preperation for a big two or three weeks ahead that will define the rest of our season.
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| Quote ="Trinitythefuture"Hahaha are you for real ? Have you forgotten last season ?'"
We were bankrupt and had no players of any note apart from Morrison
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| Quote ="Shifty Cat"and the season before, the funny thing is that some of the same faces that are moaning now, were moaning about Kear and wanted him out.'"
I didn't. He did the best with what he had. Last year..I don't count it..we had a scratch side of nobodies. We were hardly ever an embarrassing roll over like we are now, under Kear
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| Quote ="TRB"Looking at the results from last year is unreprestative of JK's time here and tells nothing of the story of the season and the background to it.
I doubt ANY other coach would have got that number of wins last year and, in my regret, I was one of those who thought the time was right for change. How wrong I was!
'"
Thank you... a voice of sense. It is a testament to Kear's ability that we got ONE win!!! I don't like being a Steve Kean out a like but I was and am depressed by Agar's appointment... he is a decent assistant but no leader
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| Quote ="Capital Cat"If I live to 100 I will never see a worst performance from any professional team than the one I saw against London enough said'"
I wasn't there but there are many reasons for this and they've all been posted on here in one way or another. Crap coach, some players not giving their all, no promotion relegation = nowt to play for, guaranteed paycheck...etc etc. Dismal season on the pitch. We sit and hope for a planning verdict....Jesus what have we and the game of RL come to?
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| Agar as the WTW coach made a key mistake by not signing at least one other (if not two) genuine prop(s) and I wish I had ten pounds for every post match press conference where R.A. has talked about losing the ruck area and being rolled down the field I'd have a nice wedge of cash by now!
He should have ensured he signed at least Ewan Dowes & kept Korkidas (or someone with sufficient experience and size) to contribute signficiantly to the go forward that Wakefield lack. We have too many second rows and not enough genuine props. It sounds like we're now trying to plug the gap with signing an unknown french import Gout who is not proven Super League quality, why didn't we go for HKR Prop Scott Wheeldon who we were linked with in 2010?
Rugby is surely about winning the collision first and then having the ability to create & score?
He (or Elston?) has however made some good signings with Kirmond, Cockayne, Lauititi, Collis (when fit), Mathers and Aiton being the most notable. Think R.A. needs greater experience alongside him and that Webster does not provide that.
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| Quote ="charlie63wildcat"I didn't. He did the best with what he had. Last year..I don't count it..we had a scratch side of nobodies. We were hardly ever an embarrassing roll over like we are now, under Kear'"
Yeah, I mean conceding 430 points in a 9 game perriod at the back end of last season (an average of 48 per game) including playing the other 2 of the bottom 3 teams was a real heroic effort.
Or how about getting panned by 60 against huddersfield on sky the year before and conceding 40 to Cas in the derby or even getting battered away at wigan on easter monday the year before?
Now I'm no massive fan of what Agar is doing, but Kear's time had come and getting rid in itself was the right decision. Lets not try and rewrite history. For years the old argument was for "Let kear build his own side and then judge him" - whats good for the goose and all that......
Wether his replacement is up to the job is another matter of course.
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| Quote ="Tommy Duckfingers"Yeah, I mean conceding 430 points in a 9 game perriod at the back end of last season (an average of 48 per game) including playing the other 2 of the bottom 3 teams was a real heroic effort.
Or how about getting panned by 60 against huddersfield on sky the year before and conceding 40 to Cas in the derby or even getting battered away at wigan on easter monday the year before?
Now I'm no massive fan of what Agar is doing, but Kear's time had come and getting rid in itself was the right decision. Lets not try and rewrite history. For years the old argument was for "Let kear build his own side and then judge him" - whats good for the goose and all that......
Wether his replacement is up to the job is another matter of course.'"
Oh the self justification of the sack Kear brigade - I love it. So absolutely no reason why we struggled last year other than Kear. Still fair do's to Agar he has a brand new team od super stars to gel, hold on a minute wasn't that what happened to Kear (minus the superstars of course)
So basically by your logic, it SACK AGAR
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| Quote ="asmadasa"Agar as the WTW coach made a key mistake by not signing at least one other (if not two) genuine prop(s) and I wish I had ten pounds for every post match press conference where R.A. has talked about losing the ruck area and being rolled down the field I'd have a nice wedge of cash by now!
He should have ensured he signed at least Ewan Dowes & kept Korkidas (or someone with sufficient experience and size) to contribute signficiantly to the go forward that Wakefield lack. We have too many second rows and not enough genuine props. It sounds like we're now trying to plug the gap with signing an unknown french import Gout who is not proven Super League quality, why didn't we go for HKR Prop Scott Wheeldon who we were linked with in 2010?
Rugby is surely about winning the collision first and then having the ability to create & score?
He (or Elston?) has however made some good signings with Kirmond, Cockayne, Lauititi, Collis (when fit), Mathers and Aiton being the most notable. Think R.A. needs greater experience alongside him and that Webster does not provide that.'"
Ah the two extra props argument, are you still flogging that dead horse.
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| Quote ="charlie63wildcat"I didn't. He did the best with what he had. Last year..I don't count it..we had a scratch side of nobodies. We were hardly ever an embarrassing roll over like we are now, under Kear'"
We've had many spankings under Kear don't worry about that. Even though the squad was thin with little quality last season some of his team selections and tactics made Agar look like an International coach.
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| Quote ="Trinitythefuture" Even though the squad was thin with little quality last season some of his team selections and tactics made Agar look like an International coach.'"
Yes Kear may have cocked up some selections (Lee to HB), but at least he had a suitable bench. When we started the season with 3 fit props (Korki, King, Johnson) he put Spiers on the bench against Cas and Catalans because he knew we needed another forward. Agar, on the other hand, has a bench consisting of only one prop, a second row (if we're lucky) a hooker (two if we're not lucky) and a lackluster centre. Beware of another bizarre bench selection against Wolves!
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