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So having been involved at the club and being told about all these investors who would get involved if only Trevor Woodward would leave all those years ago, we still appear to be in the same situation. So now that Glover and Elston have moved on, apparently the current blockers to investment, according to the many people in the know, who else is blocking the investors emerging from the shadows?
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| I feel for MC to be honest trying to get people to invest in Wakey .
The damage is now done from previous owners of the club who have screwed the possible investors that have done it in the past. How the latest ones (owners not investors) that have now gone can say they still have Wakey at heart is beyond me  |
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Its been said on here by a couple of posters in the past that investors are waiting, never heard it said away from this board so maybe its just bluster.
Who would be daft enough really?
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MC seems to have to have respect within the business community and we have more potential than most other rl clubs so I wouldn't be surprised if investors came in for us
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| Quote ="M62 J30 TRINITY"MC seems to have to have respect within the business community and we have more potential than most other rl clubs so I wouldn't be surprised if investors came in for us'" Not exactly falling over themselves to come forward are they. Iḿ afraid I would be surprised - although pleasantly but I just don´t see it happening. Glass is half empty at the moment! |
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Could it be that possible investors are holding back to measure the commitment of the speccis regarding season tickets? That's assuming they are actually out there.
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We will see but I have a feeling that our long term future will be better than some think on here
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| Quote ="M62 J30 TRINITY"We will see but I have a feeling that our long term future will be better than some think on here'"
I don't fear for our long term future, but I do fear for our short term future. |
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May be investors want to see some action from the supporters. After all it will be a business decision and they need to understand what they are investing into and the likelihood of WTW continuing in SL as well as the fan base.
If they had an idea that 8000 faithful woulkd spread the word and promote what is good about the club then they may be inclined to come forward.
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The word investor suggests that you expect a financial return and this is simply not ever going to happen in UK RL. The best owner in the UK game is Ian Lenagan, he took over Wigan 5 years ago when the club turned over £ 3 mil and lost £ 1 mil, 2012 accounts show that the club turned over £ 6 mil and showned a profit of £ 127,000.00 . so even the best run club does not make enough money to financialy reward an investor. 2012 accounts show that SL clubs between them lost £ 8 mil with only Leeds Wigan and Catalans showing any profit, so just how badly run are the other 11 clubs, well we now know just how badly run our club has been having lost £ 1.2 mil in Glovers first year and I think Chris Beerton suggested at the last fans meeting that our 2012 accounts would show a loss in the region of £ 500,000. So well played Glover excellent work ... not. Glover managed the loss with directors loans and here again we have a problem because the word loan suggests that a loss making business is by some miracle going to be able to repay the loan. Then of course it now turns out that the club also decided not to pay any bills except wages. It is ok I supposes if a RL club has a rich fan who is prepared to cover the losses ( something we have never had, infact the custodians of the club in the 1960s left it in such a dire state that it has never recovered ). So take Ken Davey away from Hudds and who will cover the £ 2 mil loss p.a, to the same extent the London owner. Cas have done well under Foulton who year on year has looked after the club and seems happy to do it because he is a Cas fan not an investor ( although his loans are secured against the ground.) So to get to the point if there was someone out there who was considering investing in Trinity then the answer would be... I`m out, as it is obvious that they can never be a return on investment. What we need is a fan with a few quid who is prepared to =#FF0000EDIT it away. I think if we able to get to Newmarket then we have a chance of increasing turnover and been able to build the club from within. What is amazing is that the owners of SL clubs have year in year out been given £ 1 mil plus by sky and most of them have proved that they could not run a hot bath, they are a group of baffons who have simple given the golden egg handed to them by sky to the players who are hugely overpaid. The owners should have got together and agreed a wage structure to prevent all the money going to the players.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=421878&tsmp=1381662647
=#FF0000El Rey. |
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The word investor suggests that you expect a financial return and this is simply not ever going to happen in UK RL. The best owner in the UK game is Ian Lenagan, he took over Wigan 5 years ago when the club turned over £ 3 mil and lost £ 1 mil, 2012 accounts show that the club turned over £ 6 mil and showned a profit of £ 127,000.00 . so even the best run club does not make enough money to financialy reward an investor. 2012 accounts show that SL clubs between them lost £ 8 mil with only Leeds Wigan and Catalans showing any profit, so just how badly run are the other 11 clubs, well we now know just how badly run our club has been having lost £ 1.2 mil in Glovers first year and I think Chris Beerton suggested at the last fans meeting that our 2012 accounts would show a loss in the region of £ 500,000. So well played Glover excellent work ... not. Glover managed the loss with directors loans and here again we have a problem because the word loan suggests that a loss making business is by some miracle going to be able to repay the loan. Then of course it now turns out that the club also decided not to pay any bills except wages. It is ok I supposes if a RL club has a rich fan who is prepared to cover the losses ( something we have never had, infact the custodians of the club in the 1960s left it in such a dire state that it has never recovered ). So take Ken Davey away from Hudds and who will cover the £ 2 mil loss p.a, to the same extent the London owner. Cas have done well under Foulton who year on year has looked after the club and seems happy to do it because he is a Cas fan not an investor ( although his loans are secured against the ground.) So to get to the point if there was someone out there who was considering investing in Trinity then the answer would be... I`m out, as it is obvious that they can never be a return on investment. What we need is a fan with a few quid who is prepared to =#FF0000EDIT it away. I think if we able to get to Newmarket then we have a chance of increasing turnover and been able to build the club from within. What is amazing is that the owners of SL clubs have year in year out been given £ 1 mil plus by sky and most of them have proved that they could not run a hot bath, they are a group of baffons who have simple given the golden egg handed to them by sky to the players who are hugely overpaid. The owners should have got together and agreed a wage structure to prevent all the money going to the players.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=421878&tsmp=1381662647
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With the current unknown surrounding the restructure it will be very hard to entice anyone to invest. People with money have money because they look after it and invest wisely. Would you currently invest at Wakey with so many unknowns?
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| Quote ="Wakeylad21"With the current unknown surrounding the restructure it will be very hard to entice anyone to invest. People with money have money because they look after it and invest wisely. Would you currently invest at Wakey with so many unknowns?'"
Yeah. |
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| Quote ="bellycouldtackle"What is amazing is that the owners of SL clubs have year in year out been given £ 1 mil plus by sky and most of them have proved that they could not run a hot bath, they are a group of baffons who have simple given the golden egg handed to them by sky to the players who are hugely overpaid. The owners should have got together and agreed a wage structure to prevent all the money going to the players.'"
Do you really think that RL players are overpaid? I don't disagree that many clubs pay far more than they can afford to, but that is an entirely different matter.
Most RL players have - at best - 12 to 15 years of earning potential in the game, but most players will have salaries of less than £60k a year. Yes, this a very good salary at the time it is being earned, but when you consider that they'll have another 30/35 years before they reach (proper) retirement this is actually a long time to cover when they are likely to earn much less than when they were playing.
Add into the equation that these guys are putting their body on the line for a good chunk of the year and I'd think it's more accurate to say these guys are being UNDERpaid. This has to be what the players think too otherwise you wouldn't see the likes of Joel Tomkins moving across to the 15-man code.
The real buffoons are not the owners of the SL clubs (true, some are not the greatest of businessmen either) - the people who have to shoulder the most responsibility for the precarious financial state of many clubs are the people at the RFL who have consistently sold the "family silver" for a pittance......or as in the case of the Stobart deal, for absolutely nothing. |
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The SL clubs lost 8 million quid in 2012 despite the sky money. All the money is paid to players. Players may deserve the money they get but the game cannot afford to pay wages at exsisting levels.
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| Quote ="RDM"Do you really think that RL players are overpaid? I don't disagree that many clubs pay far more than they can afford to, but that is an entirely different matter.
Most RL players have - at best - 12 to 15 years of earning potential in the game, but most players will have salaries of less than £60k a year. Yes, this a very good salary at the time it is being earned, but when you consider that they'll have another 30/35 years before they reach (proper) retirement this is actually a long time to cover when they are likely to earn much less than when they were playing.
Add into the equation that these guys are putting their body on the line for a good chunk of the year and I'd think it's more accurate to say these guys are being UNDERpaid. This has to be what the players think too otherwise you wouldn't see the likes of Joel Tomkins moving across to the 15-man code.
The real buffoons are not the owners of the SL clubs (true, some are not the greatest of businessmen either) - the people who have to shoulder the most responsibility for the precarious financial state of many clubs are the people at the RFL who have consistently sold the "family silver" for a pittance......or as in the case of the Stobart deal, for absolutely nothing.'"
Thanks for that Richie RDM Mathers!  |
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| Quote ="bellycouldtackle"The SL clubs lost 8 million quid in 2012 despite the sky money. All the money is paid to players. Players may deserve the money they get but the game cannot afford to pay wages at exsisting levels.'"
Cannot disagree with your posts on this subject.Totally agree. |
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| Quote ="asmadasa"Thanks for that Richie RDM Mathers!
'"
At least that's a more complimentary "outing" of who I am.................last time someone "named" me I was Di Maskill!!!
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| Quote ="RDM"At least that's a more complimentary "outing" of who I am.................last time someone "named" me I was Di Maskill!!!
'"
Don't tell them your name Ted  ...... oops  |
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| Quote ="bellycouldtackle"The SL clubs lost 8 million quid in 2012 despite the sky money. All the money is paid to players. Players may deserve the money they get but the game cannot afford to pay wages at exsisting levels.'"
Agree totally. |
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| Quote ="bellycouldtackle"2012 accounts show that SL clubs between them lost £ 8 mil with only Leeds Wigan and Catalans showing any profit, so just how badly run are the other 11 clubs, [uwell we now know just how badly run our club has been having lost £ 1.2 mil in Glovers first year and I think Chris Beerton suggested at the last fans meeting that our 2012 accounts would show a loss in the region of £ 500,000.[/u So well played Glover excellent work ... not.'"
Whilst we obviously need someone towards whom we can direct our spittly indignation, the figures you quote without context clearly don't tell the full story.
Andrew Glover took over the club in February 2011. He honoured the season tickets that had been purchased to that point in time, the club saw no benefit from merchandise that had been purchased up to that point either, and he also took on some of the historical debt the club had incurred. The 2012 season, IIRC, saw the construction of the roof over the north stand and part of the western terrace. If the accounts for these 2 years reflect the loss of income and expenditure, then I'd say we've done a damned sight better than many SL clubs in far more enviable positions than ours.
Some of those costs he may have borne himself. Others will have been converted into directors' loans. Either way, to throw it all at his doorstep is a little unfair, IMO.
I agree with you that RL is not something that any "investor" would consider to be a profitable investment, and like you, I see no reason either that with a move to a new stadium, this club could not be self-funding, or better. Belle Vue offers limited opportunities for generating additional income beyond match days. To operate at break-even or a modest profit out of Belle Vue would be a massive achievement, and down to a large degree of luck. Modern facilities just off the M62 will be far more attractive, and sponsorship revenue should increase considerably too, with the better opportunities for advertising they offer.
In the meantime, it's up to the supporters. If we get that one-in-a-million sugar daddy, then great, but simple maths says we won't, so the problem is ours. |
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| Quote ="RDM"Do you really think that RL players are overpaid? I don't disagree that many clubs pay far more than they can afford to, but that is an entirely different matter.
Most RL players have - at best - 12 to 15 years of earning potential in the game, but most players will have salaries of less than £60k a year. Yes, this a very good salary at the time it is being earned, but when you consider that they'll have another 30/35 years before they reach (proper) retirement this is actually a long time to cover when they are likely to earn much less than when they were playing.
Add into the equation that these guys are putting their body on the line for a good chunk of the year and I'd think it's more accurate to say these guys are being UNDERpaid. This has to be what the players think too otherwise you wouldn't see the likes of Joel Tomkins moving across to the 15-man code.'"
I agree with you totally, and not just to counter the trend. |
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I don't think anyne would be playing RL if the wages were any lower.
I started work at 18 so will probably work 45 years, currently on around 20k.
If I were a RL player, I'd have to earn 60k in my 15 year (max) career to equal that - and that's assuming my wages will stay the same for the next 40 years.
I honestly was shocked to find that scholarship players at clubs get absolutely nothing - not even travel expenses. Their "earnings" during that time is their training. And even their first contract at 17/18 is only in line with what they'd earn in a day job.
I agree that player's wages are THE drain on the club's finances, but pay players any less and it won't be financially viable to be a professional RL player, and we will go back to part time.
Catch 22 really.
If I were a businessman then I'd suggest alternative methods of generating/saving money. But I aren't, so I can't.
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| Quote ="DAVE@CAS1990"I don't think anyne would be playing RL if the wages were any lower.
I started work at 18 so will probably work 45 years, currently on around 20k.
If I were a RL player, I'd have to earn 60k in my 15 year (max) career to equal that - and that's assuming my wages will stay the same for the next 40 years.
I honestly was shocked to find that scholarship players at clubs get absolutely nothing - not even travel expenses. Their "earnings" during that time is their training. And even their first contract at 17/18 is only in line with what they'd earn in a day job.
I agree that player's wages are THE drain on the club's finances, but pay players any less and it won't be financially viable to be a professional RL player, and we will go back to part time.
Catch 22 really.
If I were a businessman then I'd suggest alternative methods of generating/saving money. But I aren't, so I can't.'"
Not that I begrudge the wages that players earned, but it's not like they can't work beyond their playing careers. Most used to double up with work in any case. The only argument against the current trend is that at 32 and with no other training or experience it can be tough to find a new path that pays well.
A lot of players seem to have awoken to this now and are finding ways to make the transition to civy street in readiness. |
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"Lots" seem to open gym's, become personal trainers or sell herbalife long before they even pack in playing the game.
As TRB has said the end of their RL career is not the end of their earning capabilities.
I think for what they do many of them are very well looked after indeed, but the problem with the fully pro game is that without Sky money it is completely unsustainable and with a blink of the eye we could go straight back to where we were pre SL such is the ham fisted governance of the game and the clubs.
I'd love to see the figure that has been "pumped" into the game since the inception of SL to see what dramatic changes the RFL can put forward as offering a benefit to their governance.
As far as i can see it many clubs are still terribly run and either dangle over financial disaster or require earth bending figures of private money to compete, most clubs are no longer in ownership of their own grounds, the international game has gone so far in reverse it is practically out of view and the only people to have benfited are the players and the bods running the game.
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While i respect peoples views on Saints Andrew and james.
I dont think we should let fiction overtake fact..
The clubs was bought debt free and any debt taken on was a business decision i am sure preditcated to produce profit.
Only a minimum amount of season ticket sales were sold prior to the takeover.
The stand developments was undertaken with r.f.l. loans and other director contributions.
We were told on numerus occasions of high atttendances record sponerships and even as late as last June the we were now stable and we should invest in season tickets !
all to be dashed our asperations of a progresive club that we had been fed on! exspose as smoke and mirrors !boardering on in my opinion criminal, all a traversy of lies and deceit.
We now have transparency?honesty and openess where does that stand with the statments coming out of the club Glover now working on newmarket is he??
Elston done a brillient job for which we would like to thank him?
Decimating the team by selling and then exspecting those remaining to fight every week with blood sweat and tears in the interest of balanceing the books will show in time if that is self defeating ..or that the income projected in sales merchandise and sponership. will suffer acordingly.
After all dont we buy season tickets with hope and excitement to see our team compeat and to do so every week.
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...... oops 
