I'm not short on theories and opinions regarding RL.

But there is one issue that has bugged me for years and I just can't find a plausible explanation.

Josh Griffin: He's 33 years old, he now has the perfect build for a Rugby player, in fact he's a bit of a monster for his height.

I've followed his career since he was in our Academy right up until now.

It's only been in the last five years IMO that he's reached his full physical potential.

My issue is this. I can't help but think that had Josh come through the NRL, he'd have reached that potential at around 24 years of age. That is a full four years earlier than he did, and would have coincided far more with his playing prime years. This also applies to dozens of other players.

I just don't know why, as I reckon we reached more or less parity with the NRL in terms of sports science, training methods and life style about 15 years ago. Yes they are still ahead, but the gulf is nowhere near what it once was.

Yet look at Dom Young, a beanpole a few years back, but he looks like a terminator now. I honestly don't think that transformation would have happened in SL, certainly not in that timeframe.

Look at Toby Boothroyd, he's only 20, never played NRL, was never a squad player, has never been full time, but you find me 20 year old reserve players in SL that is his size. There are not many. Yet in Oz he'd be considered ordinary.

Look at Issac Shaw, he's older than Toby, yet every-time i see him I keep wondering when someone is going to introduce him to pasta! He looks like he lives on salad. He is a good player imho, but he doesn't seem to have developed physically much in the last few years.

So, why is it taking SL so long to physically develop their players compared to the NRL, especially regarding the top clubs, who allegedly have all the same structures in place.

Over to you.

Totally agree with this. Apparently Murphy has bulked up considerably with muscle in the pre season whilst training.

Perhaps it has more to do with nutrition though as much as training though I could believe that players are trained much more to develop physically in their academy age players than skills. You look at our academies at the top level over here I would say the difference in investment would be huge. But Thais it’s the 16-19 age bracket that a lot of the hard work is done that makes the difference in physicality.

I'd agree with you to an extent. But food, good food, is no cheaper in Oz than here, and the science and knowledge has been around for years. Iy's readily available on the internet (and I am talking legal here).

When I was younger I knew a fair few lads who joined gyms and used a body builders diet and they all bulked up, some very significantly, and all off there own backs.

Obviously not all players need bulk, and some simply can't add it. But for those who can, and would benefit, it seems to arrive to late imho.

PS: Murphy did most of that whilst still in the UK, which really makes you wonder. I'm not sure he'd have bothered if he'd stayed, but might be wrong.

You answered your own question for me.
We do not have parity in Sports Science and nutrition with them.
Including facilities too.

If Murphy did do that over here it makes you wonder if he was given a program from his new club to follow in order to become more physical.

When I say nutrition I more mean the access to the right food and supplements for young players that it will be better planned, perhaps paid for and monitored more due to the investment and focus I would imagine the clubs put into their academies. I’m not sure the uk clubs would put anywhere near the financial, management and educational quality into our youth systems.

and we have enough coaches that have gone through the Aussie system, with the knowledge etc to be able to implement it here. Perhaps it's a money, or lack of, thing that is holding us back.

No actually I didn’t. I said that was he case 15 years ago. I said the gulf was now very small. So question still in answered.

That’s exactly I think the issue, money and investment. Add to that the top clubs can just poach the academy players that other teams have heavily invested in at academy level.

That was my answer.
I don't think the gulf is very small.....shown by the evidence you give.

Why ask a 'genuine question' if you are going to argue with a genuine answer?

That wasn’t my issue. I’m pointing out that I didn’t answer my own question, because I don’t think there is a gulf. If you do fair enough, you might be right, but it wasn’t my answer it was yours

Slightly off topic, but I was reading recently about bio-banding and physical development. I believe it's something that has been used in the Southern Hemisphere for a while and is starting to catch on in the UK, although I've not heard about it in RL over here yet. Here's the link if anyone's interested https://theathletic.com/4655857/2023/09 ... otballers/

Slightly off topic, but I was reading recently about bio-banding and physical development. I believe it's something that has been used in the Southern Hemisphere for a while and is starting to catch on in the UK, although I've not heard about it in RL over here yet. Here's the link if anyone's interested https://theathletic.com/4655857/2023/09 ... otballers/

The very fact Murphy's team (and probably all NRL teams) have a multi million traing and rehab facility separate to the stadium, with teams who have attended the Australia Institute of Sport shows why it is different.

We have one of the best backroom staff we've ever had, and it's still 1 guy working in a very small gym.
I'm impressed with what we are doing, especially with nutrition side, but we are still light years behind in my opinion.

I was on about this with a mate the other day. Take Herbie Farnworth, top 3 centre in the world, went to Brisbane at about 16, Would he be the same player now if he came through Wigan, I don’t reckon so. Has anyone seen South Sydney’s new training facilities, it would match a premier league club. Sports science facilities and I reckon climate make a massive difference not taking into account the NRL is a Billion pound organisation. It’s like comparing the premier league to the Scottish premier league in my opinion.

There is no gulf in the knowledge and at most clubs there is no gulf in the facilities.
The gulf lays in the number of quality athletes that enter the system.
In Australia they have many more times the number of quality athletes available due to the prominence and attraction of the NRL. They are at the head of the line when kids decide which sport they want to play and which sportsmen they wish to emulate. The base of their talent pyramid is much wider than ours, it’s almost as simple as that!

Quote ="imwakefieldtillidie"Slightly off topic, but I was reading recently about bio-banding and physical development. I believe it's something that has been used in the Southern Hemisphere for a while and is starting to catch on in the UK, although I've not heard about it in RL over here yet. Here's the link if anyone's interested https://theathletic.com/4655857/2023/09 ... otballers/'" Understanding maturation rates has been a consideration over here for many years. The problem in Rugby League is with the intelligence of some coaches who refuse to change or recognise maturation rates as an issue and adapt accordingly. Edit: I think I must point out that I’m talking about the coach not the S&C coaches who are generally much better educated about such things as maturation rates but don’t always have a say.

Quote ="imwakefieldtillidie"Slightly off topic, but I was reading recently about bio-banding and physical development. I believe it's something that has been used in the Southern Hemisphere for a while and is starting to catch on in the UK, although I've not heard about it in RL over here yet. Here's the link if anyone's interested https://theathletic.com/4655857/2023/09 ... otballers/'" Understanding maturation rates has been a consideration over here for many years. The problem in Rugby League is with the intelligence of some coaches who refuse to change or recognise maturation rates as an issue and adapt accordingly. Edit: I think I must point out that I’m talking about the coach not the S&C coaches who are generally much better educated about such things as maturation rates but don’t always have a say.

I agree with your point about number of players but you could not be more wrong about knowledge and facilities.

Pick any NRL club at random and Google their training facilities.
Then look at ours. Or even the rugby clubs playing out of football stadiums.

Has anyone seen the short series of videos following Penrith Panthers in pre season, I think it was called Preparing The Panthers.

Quite a good watch

Has anyone seen the short series of videos following Penrith Panthers in pre season, I think it was called Preparing The Panthers.

Quite a good watch

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it is 100% down to coaching and the ethos of the importance of sport as a whole in Australia, which just doesn’t have the same emphasis here in the UK

I think competitiveness within environments is also a factor. More talent pool, more doing the little 1% to get in front of the man in front of you. Over here we do not have the luxury of that. Also more money for facilities over there.

Can I just say Josh Griffin is a class act and if we manage to keep him fit has at least another couple of years in him when we get back to super league. Exceptional athlete, good rugby IQ and athlete as mentioned.
Was delighted when we signed him from Hull as he was arguably their best player for his ban.

I always wondered why our forwards going to the NRL go really well, at times proper dominate…. Ellis, Burgess’s, Graham, Whitehead, Hodgeson and Moz, Bateman etc, yet the backs that go over more often than not struggle and end up back over here.

Remember listening to coach Nathan Brown on James Grahams podcast about the major differences between NRL and SL. He said he could be pretty certain an English forward would go well in the NRL as they are usually bled through a lot younger into the 1st team, in more challenging harder conditions, by the time a lot of forwards are hitting 22/24 they have over 100 top flight games, like a Morgan Smithies or a Liam Byrne for example, where as in Aus the majority at that age are still playing NSW/QLD cup. Our backs he said are generally no where near the size, speed or skill of our Southern hemisphere, that’s where we struggle to compete.

It feels like an eternity since we have played Aus at international level, but while ever I’ve watched us (I’m 34) we have always matched them in the forwards but been well beneath them 1-7. Obviously genetics may play a part especially with a huge Polynesian and aboriginal contingent playing over in Aus.

As others have identified the facilities and number of employees at the club is vastly ahead of what most clubs have here in SL.

Let’s not also forget the junior playing pool is also significantly larger than ours.

I believe the junior Penrith comp on its own has more junior players in its system than the entirety of junior players playing the game in England.

There is also the fact that NRL in the heavily populated areas in Australia is the prime sport and is pretty much in a 2 way battle with AFL to be the dominant sport in the country meaning unlike us they generally get the pick of lads with the highest athletic potential.

The emphasis on physical education is much higher on the agenda in their education system than it is over here.

The NRL has a larger and more varied gene pool with 50% of the NRL players being on Polynesian decent who are naturally larger.

I don’t believe that though certain players like Dom Young wouldn’t have reached similar levels to those he has achieved in the NRL had he remained in SL, it’s just the NRL target natural athletes which he clearly is with athletic potential and can provide the wages, facilities, coaches and lifestyle to attract them.

In regards Griffin it’s natural for players to add mass as they get older especially if they move positions from an outside back to a forward. In fairness he’s not that much bigger than his days playing in the centre at Hull however he isn’t as dynamic as he was back then due to wear and tear of the game (not age) and the mass he has added as part of his positional switch.

Do you reckon farnworth would have been as good if he wouldn’t have gone to Brisbane at 16 or Widdop to Melbourne at 14.

Farnworth was being lined up for the NRL from the age of 13/14 and Widdop ended up over there by circumstance.

I don’t think the question being raised is “would they be as good” the question is in regards to their physical athleticism.

Do I think Farnworth would be as athletic as he is now had he come through the SL systems, probably yes or not far off because he is a natural freak of an athlete he was successful at every sport he turned his hand to and he had the height and frame.

I don’t see Widdop’s key attributes as his athleticism so I don’t see as there would be much difference either.

I don’t think either Farnworth or Widdop would be as good a players as they are becoming or were, in Widdops case, because to bring out your true potential you need to perform at the highest level regularly and they wouldn’t get that over here.

But Farnworth is a good example.
Could he have been as physical, of course yes.
Would he?
Well for me, without the same inventive and pressure to succeed and the knowledgeable people around him I don't think so.
He wouldn't have had to try as hard in SLto be successful.