So here we are then, another major upheaval of the sport, or maybe not! I was thinking back to the 'visionary' that was Mr. Lindsey and the birth of the 'European' Super League. Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, maybe even Dublin, Edinburgh given time.........

Oh well, at least having had a French presence has improved their national team? Seen as that was the idea back then, let's see how France perform in the World Cup. What is actually better now about the game than say in the '90's? Then you had some teams playing 40 odd games and nowhere near the amount of injuries that we have/had in the last few years. Cups that could be won by the 'lesser' clubs, the County cups, the Regal trophy, remember that?! As far as i can see, Wigan, Leeds, Saints, getting no bigger attendances now than back then in the depths of Winter? Has the product improved on the field in Summer? I've seen too many games in perfect conditions with appalling skill levels, and zero intensity. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying most fans would not prefer to watch in bright, warm conditions, instead of horizontal rain freezing cold, but yet still those people turned up when the game was 'dying'.....again!

So maybe it is time to go full circle and say the Summer venture hasn't worked, on many levels. Maybe it's time to start the season in early September and finish late April. The proposal to start in mid March is ridiculous, meaning for some clubs an off season of 6 months?!! No competitive games, no matchday revenue etc! Let's have MORE cups and finals, not less, let's have Great Britain tours back in our Summer, let's have Kangaroo tours, and NZ tours in our Autumn. It's time to say generally the last 25 years hasn't improved the sport.

Sorry don't agree. Being a summer game has saved the sport IMHO. If we were still winter the game would be dead or swallowed up by RU, We certainly wouldn't have a TV deal and thus SL would not be a pro sport bar two or three teams, maybe.

Saved the sport from what exactly?! Hurtling into complete oblivion?! We've been competing with Football and RU for the last 100 years, including TV and media coverage. 1996 was all hype and bluster just like IMG now, hence Full circle, we were told back then it was dying, so if the 'model' of the last 25 years has worked so well, why have IMG been brought in???!!!

I don’t think you can go back to winter rugby now but I too would like to see an extra competition and trophy boy not unlike the old Players No6 . It’s unlikely to happen though because they’re actually wanting to reduce games not increase them.

It's a fair point for debate, so I see it as the following.

Yes, it's on record, the sport was bankrupt by 1994ish.

We weren't competing with football, once the Premier League kicked in Soccer went through the roof.

We had zero TV coverage for the league pre SKY, and a derisory effort from the BBC for the CCup.

With RU's six nations and International fixture if were we competing against them in the winter, SKY, let alone anyone else, wouldn't have looked at us twice once Union went pro. They would have destroyed us because to the untrained public what would be our point in RL. Union dwarfs League nowadays, competing head on would be suicide.

Who do you think would pay what SKY pay now for a winter game (and that include SKY themselves) IMHO nobody, we'd get zip. The schedules are full of winter sports alreadY, summer is our USP.

Just how I see it, so it's a non starter for me. I mean that quite literally, I'm not freezing through a winter on the terraces or wondering if the game is even on, count me out.

Well I get the impression they want to reduce the league games but increase the latter stages of challenge cup/competition games (2-legs) and international games.

The 2 leg games would mean that both homes and away would get gates though in the interest of both clubs and lower league clubs I believe both games money should be put together and split evenly. That would be a boost for champ teams who make it far in the comp.

Yeah I’d overlooked that. I think that’s a good idea but personally I’d like to see an additional competition but it won’t happen!

The move to SL wasnt a "choice", the game, primarily due to Wigan and Widnes overspending was just about bankrupt, hence Maurice Lindsay brokering the first Sky deal and the advent of SL.
There are plenty of pros and cons but, as a spectator, summer rugby is massively preferable to the winter.
Plenty of reasons why RL isn't growing, and it will be interesting to see just what effect IMG have on the sport.

I’d love to see a mini comp replacing the world club challenge involving a contest between it including NRL and SL teams.

This is what I expected from IMG so I’m a little underwhelmed. See below for my simple idea.

My idea would be this - on a similar basis to Magic. Brought in when licensing starts where there’s no relegation for finishing bottom, time to prep and organise logistics. This could be played 2 weeks before the season commences or mid/ late season.

Over one stadium. Let’s use Newcastle. Even make it a PPV event.

Top 6 from Superleague play top 6 from NRL. Alternatedly played in AUS - UK

1 v 1 STH v PEN (playing for WCC trophy final game on Sun)
2 v 2 WIG v SHA (sat)
3 v 3 HUD v COW(sun)
4 v 4 CAT v EEL (sat)
5 v 5 RHI v STO (sat)
6 v 6 SAL v ROO (sun)

I would absolutely love to see that!! I would suggest it would generate a huge amount of interest and certainly be something new and innovative for the calendar.

Fair enough, a lot of what you say is probably true. Let's remember though, pre Sky in 1990 BSB came about with a triangular dish! I still have an old VHS tape of when we played Australia, when Andy Mason scored a great try, they showed top flight games and introduced us to Eddie & Stevo well before the Summer era. I do realise that if a poll was taken about going back to Winter probably 80% of fans and players would say no thanks. I'm 50 next year, but if it came about, it wouldn't bother me, if i was fit and able i would go in any season. Even though i was being a bit tongue in cheek with my original post, we still are a 'Northern' game, the expansion never did happen, never mind the big cities i mentioned, which were the original 'dream' like i said. I do think we have rested on our laurels somewhat as in on the field. Ironically with RU, i think it's a far more attractive game to watch than it was even say 10 years ago, probably because half the coaches involved at clubs are ex league! I just think that if the powers that be think we need a big change, then let's have a bit more than, we'll reduce the number of games, a bit of tinkering here and there, and it's all just a damp squib that doesn't actually achieve anything in the long term.....

A summer sport eh…….That begins in February? Yeah right.

A summer sport eh…….That begins in February? Yeah right.

You needed to say that twice



That's a fair point though, even if it is usually almost March. I agree though, I'd prefer it to kick off mid March and end now or maybe the first few weeks in October when the weather is still pretty decent these days. But I guess that is more up to SKY and their schedules?

We needed better governance and better owners back in 1995 and I think we’ve improved on the latter to some degree but the governance of the sport is worse, due in part to the increased strength of the owners.

I’m not sure how much money we’ve had from SKY over the last 25 years but let’s make an educated guess at half a Billion, nice round number.
Where’s it gone?
Too much of it, perhaps a large majority of it, has been frittered away on overseas players & their agents. While I’m sure we all enjoyed watching some of these players for a while, the money they’ve taken back home hasn’t really helped the Northern Hemisphere game much if at all.

The second lamentable part of the SL era is the complete demise of Lions, Kangaroo & Kiwi tours.
They used to be one of the Crown Jewels of the game and attracted a lot of attention, I even remember seeing the Kangaroos arriving at Manchester airport with footage and interviews done while the players pushed their luggage through customs.

There are now a couple of generations of players who’ve been denied the opportunity to become a British Lions Tourist and there’s young men in their late 20s or early 30s who’ve never been to see an Ashes Test series.

The diminishing of the Challenge Cup as the most sought after Trophy in the game is another regret of the SL era.
Purposely undermined and reduced in favour of the Grand Final, the Challenge Cup was one thing that caught the imagination of youngsters, it was a spectacle and it had reach, right across the planet not just RL playing nations but in the USA and other countries.

This isn’t a full list of regrettable side affects of SL but my last one is that while we’ve had the money off sky we’ve also hidden ourselves behind a pay wall and reduced our presence to the public in much the same way as Boxing did after the height of its popularity during the 80s.

Some of these things are part of the reason why the games participation numbers, viewing figures and attendances at big occasions have dwindled.

We’ve lost ourselves somewhere along the line!

Hard to argue with that. Superficially the first years of SL looked great, but sadly it was all show, no foundations for any kind of future were laid down, it all went on wages. No business can prosper without forward planning, R&D and training the next generation.

I wasn't sure about summer rugby, until a game at Oldham in that truncated season, where 26 players slid about in the mud for 80 minutes (if anyone was there, it was the one where the fox ran round the pitch at half-time). That settled the argument in my mind.

I think the Challenge Cup has diminished, but I think that is partly to do with changing lifestyles. Going to London used to be a big deal, the big day out for us simple northern types. As the old Wembley closed, cheap flights came along and hotel booking sites. Going to London is no big deal anymore and hotel stays are often part of a night out. So, the big trip to the smoke lost its allure too.

As for other things, I don't think the lack of Aussie tours has got anything to do with Super League but more to do with the growth of the NRL and Origin as well as full-time professionalism. The increased physicality of rugby league due to full-time professionalism means that teams can't do the tours in the same way as before, playing multiple clubs and then the tests. Now, it's three games and that's it. And the Aussies aren't as bothered anymore because they're too focussed on Origin.

The problem with the game is that it has been run by dinosaurs for too long, who haven't seen beyond its roots and not had the vision of how to make it work beyond the roots.

We should look at the NFL for inspiration. UK NFL fans don't want to watch Manchester Gladiators play American Football. They want to watch the New York Jets, or whoever, and maybe one day see it live. In the same light, someone in Torquay perhaps doesn't want to watch Torquay Rovers play Barrow but would rather see Warrington play Saints, and perhaps even follows Warrington, or whoever, in the same way that UK NFL fans will have their own favourite team unconnected to where they are from.

Perhaps one way is for each club to commit to play one game at a location many miles from their home base, in expansion areas, with some compensation to the club for lost ticket sales. The NRL do it. The Rabbitohs often play a game on the Sunshine Coast, There are commonly games in country towns.

I'm tentatively supportive, provided clubs have a change to access Category A status, and it isn't just a way of persuading the big money clubs not to shrink the league; ie. if you promise to keep it at 12, or maybe 14, we promise you'll never get relegated, but no one else will get the same chance.

The move to summer meant coterminous seasons and thus no room for tours

I'm not sure that's right. An Aussie tour was always at the end of their season. It hasn't changed for them, and it is their lack of enthusiasm that is partly the issue. But we've had World Cups every four years, and Tri-Nations and Four Nations, some New Zealand tours.

One of the issues has been the decision to end Great Britain. That was a mistake, and we shouldn't abandon it just because Wayne Bennett was a disaster, who'd rather pick an average Aussie stand-off to play on the wing over a good British winger, presumably because of the accent.

Someone mentioned earlier the World Club Challenge. Although there have been some good moments, it is always a farce, and obviously so. Let's assume Saints play Penrith in March. Well, Penrith can beat every single NRL team relatively comfortably most weekends, so it's no surprise our teams can't, The Roosters could play them and they'd lose, but all it does us give us a chance to reflect on how far behind we are. We only have a chance because they're ring rusty, whereas the British teams have had about three weeks of games.

I just think the rise of the summer game has coincided with other changes. An Aussie tour wouldn't be able to play clubs like in the old days. There is too much physicality now. They need a week between games, which is probably why a Tri-Nations was used, because we see more games but each team doesn't play as much.

For me playing predominantly in summer was the saving grace of the SKY.

I can tell you for certain that had the game been played in winter I’d have never got my son watching the sport. Like many youngsters of his generation winter meant hibernation in his bedroom with his Xbox and all the comforts of home. I don’t blame him it’s a different world.

Like most on here I was a street corner kid, I admit it was Sandal but it wasn’t any warmer. We were used to being out doors in all weathers so the winter game was just an extension of that.

My point is, is that RL more than any other sport needs to attract new young fans and especially families. We need a USP and ours is that you can turn up most of the time in a t-shirt and remain warm.

I think Toronto got one thing spot on. That was the bear tents and the bbq’s pre match. In that fan zone we need loads of guest ales and good sensibly priced food outlets and some entertainment.

Make a day of it. Of course this could only really work from about mid May onwards but that’s still a lot of games. It would need to be secure with strict policies regarding drunken anti social behaviour so only a few hours pre kick off.

Night times even better. Get a sponsor to pay for a firework display after the game, keep them hanging around. Or a laser show, a band, anything to make that £25 ticket seem better value. It doesn’t have to end at the final whistle.

Make summer our friend. Exploit it and the fact that people of all kinds like to get out in the warm weather. That’s and a decent team and ground will attract new punters.

I know I’m slightly off topic but only the early Bulls really exploited summer RL and that bit really worked. I think over the past 25 years we’ve forgotten that bit, the bit of summer RL that really excited most people.

With what we have coming on line we need to make the whole season (most of it) one long summer bash. We can start that in 2024.

Do not agree about two leg cup games .The C C as poor fan base and do not think it you got a score of were one team as a 25 plus lead do not think there will be much of a crowd for return leg .The idea of scrapping Magic Weekend is mad .This is one of the main reasons why Sky pay there money it is a show piece Why they stoped doing all derbys I can not understand .

Yep utterly bizarre that last bit. Maybe it was Davey who had a sulk because Hudds don’t have any mates to play.

Have to agree with you on this.
The whole point of the cup is that its knockout rugby, winner goes through, loser goes home and depending on who is playing, the second game could be awful.
A one sided first game would kill the fixture and neither side and more importantly, the fans, would have any appetite for the second leg.
It's certainly not going to halt the decline in the popularity of the cup.

That was also my concern. It works in a sport like football where likely 1/2 scores are the difference. Can you imagine York getting pumped 50 nil and having a return fixture…..

I agree with a fair few points of what IMG are trying to do but they really need to look at the competitions in more detail.

Agree totally re CC.
Magics another matter, never been never had any kind of interest.
For me it's a fixture when each club should play each other home and away.
Also wasn't the Tragic supposed to encourage a massive upturn in new support.

I would.


What would be wrong with that?


Joking aside, while I lived in Torquay in the 70's, I got into RL by meeting fans of clubs who were there on holiday. ("Grockles" as we called them/you)


I chose Wakefield as a lad the same age as me had one of the shirts on and I liked it!