Just reading the Bradford forum and they show their home grown players on their squad list.
Our squad list has similar but they tend to be the lower squad numbers that are less likely to play.

We clearly have Wildie who I think will play a lot this year and Anakin who I think will feature, with Walshaw and Trout who could with some injuries but we are not in a position like Leeds, Wigan and Saints where our best players are home grown.

Partly I'm thinking that this is down to their academy attracting the best youth players in the country so already have those best players and are bound to keep them in the same team.
Partly it is down to the lower/poorer clubs not being able to keep their home grown players.

So the league is now made up of teams split across three types of player

1) Overseas import
2) Home grown
3) British import (someone else's home grown)

Without the stats it's difficult to say but I'm thinking the lower half of the league will have less home grown than the top half in their starting 17. They'll have them in the squad but not as their strike players.
Our home grown players are dotted here and there with Murphy, Ferguson, Brough, Pitts, Ellis and Westwood but I'd also say that many of our hopefuls drift down the league rather than up to the big guns.

So I'm interested to know 1) are the players drifting down the league like Morton, Kay, Rob Spicer, James Davey etc actually not capable of Super League and have found their correct place, or 2) have we not given them the training they would have got if they'd gone to a bigger club.
Clearly the bigger clubs chose not to sign them so that partly lends itself to point 1) but it is a long time since we have had a homegrown player who has become one of our star players. Cas do it with their locals. Shenton, Orr, Westerman (for a time)..
so the question is........are we not doing it because the players in Wakefield area are not as good, because we are not spotting them or because we are breaking them?

Just wondering if any of the posters who are closer to this detail have an opinon.........

I suspect it's a combination of things

1) We have in the past not attracted the very top notch juniors as other clubs have been willing to pay more

2) We have been guilty of not giving those juniors we did have enough experience at SL level to allow them to develop further

3) Any real quality players we have had have been prised away by clubs with more money


Sadly, it seems that with a return to P&R we may see a lot more of point 2 in the near future as survival in the league will be more important than blooding and giving experience to juniors.

Although the rumours are that the next crop of juniors to come through the ranks are much better quality than some of those in the recent past, but the question remains will we play them when they're ready or will we be in a position where we can't afford to because of the threat of relegation??

There are 2 points to our perceived lack of home grown players.

1/ We don't produce enough top quality juniors
2/ we are unable to retain all of the youngsters that we may prefer to keep

However, IMO, we don't produce the numbers of top quality juniors and there are certainly more of our ex juniors in the CC than in SL, which tells its own story.

Unfortunately to change this situation requires serious sustained investment, which at present, we are not capable of.

When you look at the resources that Wigan, Leeds and Saints have, we are just not in the same league.

I think it also probably comes down to the young home grown players been surrounded by top players in a top team.

More so with backs, (Not saying all) but i think generally there weaknesses dont get highlighted as much as they are not as often put in vunreble situations by the player inside them, and are also put into space by there inside player.

Ive always said if we put half of the Wigan youngsters in our current side they wouldn`t be held in as high regard

Like others have suggested it's a combination of factors. The best are often hoovered up by the bigger clubs however the juniors here haven't really been given the chance so when they're still hovering around the reserves/u20's/u23's as it was they've lost out on valuable development time. This means they are behind their peers at larger clubs who have been playing 1 or 2 years of SL so naturally they will fall down the pyramid rather than move up.

If they don't get a sustained chance they'll never improve.

P&R will set the development of youngster at the lower end of SL back as clubs look outside in the hope of surviving. The RFL have compounded that by apparently increasing the non-fed limit and reducing the club trained requirements.

Having said that, after 6 years of relative safety there is an appalling lack of regular first teamers in the Trinity squad who have come through the ranks.

I guess ideally academies ought to be taken away from the clubs and regional academies set up run by funding from the SL TV contract. A kind of draft system could then be introduced so that the worst team has the pick of the best youngster. This would resolve the issue of the biggest clubs cherry picking the best talent. However it won't make the worst team play them.

You are correct, it's certainly easier to bring youngsters through in a winning team, than it is for them to have to play long minutes is a losing team.
The point with the "Wigan" juniors though, is that more of them do go on to make it as full time SL quality players.

What story does it tell wrencat, I'll tell you what ,we've had em and done nowt with em,but I've banged on about this subject since I've been on this forum but I'm afraid what's been put on this thread tells me no one was interested .If your academy wins the national title at under 18s losing just two games all season against all the super leagues youngsters surely that tells you the quality was there but nothing at that vital age was done with them.Let's wait until this season ends and let's see if this crop of youngsters are worth developing, if they are let's hope they get treated better than the last group, I certainly agree with wildcat26 view about the Wigan youngsters and also khlavs opinion about lost development time wrencat its obvious why the Wigan juniors go on to make SL players the get top class coaching and plenty of encouragement I wonder when we ask are the players good enough, if its a case of the coaches who are in charge of them who are lacking in the quality to bring the potential through

If only there was someone qualified to bring that potential through!! Know anyone?

don't think he does irony.

Pick bones out of my post vasty , junior and youth rugby your not in the same class

At least Vastman occasionally shows some, unlike a few others.

You better explain class to me ,cos in my opinion class in sports terms means far superior

Lets keep on topic please, any off topic chats will be removed.

The bit I'm not clear on though is what does the coach need to do.
It can't be resolved in my opinion by just playing them in the first team.
They need to learn something.

So what is it?

this principle works on paper but which starlet would want to get drafted to the weakest side, the difference is like chalk and cheese

Surely the coach doesn't just pick a youngster , his job is to encourage him make him feel the job in front of him his just up his street make him feel what's needed from him and make him feel that as a coach you think that he's the man to do the job for him, I'm not sure our coach can do that

this theory of selection is only to better the weakest side and like you said there is no trusted bond between player and coach, be nice to get a draft pick but it isn't feasible

IMO what is needed is investment in the youth to encourage them to continue within the club, bring back age limit to under 21 and make the reserve side that can play in the lower divisions with no promotion

Doesn't his job also involve actually teaching something, or has that already been done?

Surely there's more to this SL coaching lark that we're all so expert at, than patting a young kid on the back as he runs on and saying "just go enjoy yourself son?"

Don't think my comments were anything like go out and enjoy yourself son

But the question remains; I agree that a coach has to motivate his players - as does anyone with a leadership role - but isn't there more to it than that?

A lot of it is if your face fits as with any job.

It worked for John Harbin, who undoubtably has brought through our best bunch in the last 30 years. Speak to anyone who was there at the time and they will tell you his RL knowledge was average at best, but he got the very best out of everyone.
He also gave youngsters a chance and stuck with them. Admittedly this wasnt always through choice, but im sure the way this was done has stood the likes of Westwood & Ellis in good stead

Boy can I relate to that.

When I returned from living in Oz after six years as a 13 year old I wanted to carry on my RL. I'd done ok in the open, friendly and approachable world of Aussie junior RL. I don't think i'd ever have made the star side or bee an Australian Schoolboy International but I was competent as FB playing for Bathurst Panthers (or Railways as they were then known).

Schoolboy RL at my new school seemed a bit hit and miss but then school for me was a bit hit and miss.

I eventually went down to club (won't name it) to see what was on offer. Now my memory is very vague as to the set up at the time but there was some sort of youth set up (this was 1976). The coach at the time when I asked if I could have a trial said gruffly "if you want" and that was the last time he looked directly at me. Maybe he didn't like me or it was the fact I was from Sandal not the "estate" as he called it, or maybe he was just having a bad day.

He never watched me once. When we played touch and pass he didn't put me on a team I just tagged along. I won the sprint challenge by some way which he didn't acknowledge and somehow seemed to suggest his fave player and probable relative was the fastest player he'd ever seen and it went on. I was ostracised by him and as you would expect his "team". I never stood a chance. A year later I went down with an estate lad I'd become friends with and trained for a few weeks and because of my new connection I was better treated especially by the lads but I'd lost the taste for it by then and I still reckon I'd have only got a game if there had only been 12 "estate" lads left with two legs.

I'm not saying Mopsey is that kind of coach but that attitude of nepotism though much diminished still exists in a fair few clubs. I'm sure there are Aussie clubs and coaches like that but they are a small minority with most clubs being egalitarian - we have much to learn.

Ellis and Westwood were exposed to regular SL rugby at a young age. I'm sure they learnt and developed far more than they would've had their involvement been sporadic whilst in their late teens/early 20's. It's kind of what I was getting at before.

I think it's also fair to say both those players were exceptional mature for their age especially Ellis which IMHO is the main reason they both got blooded early.