Need to bring him back to the wildcats...... Need sharper play from dummy half and think it was some of his play that led to our good run. Off load Wildie the other way.

Agree he would improve our distribution from the play the ball, but suspect the reason he was allowed to leave was the money he was on. I suspect that the money was used to improve the squad elsewhere and we don't have the spare cash to get him back, even more so with the Eric France sponsorship deal not being paid, and I expect the C&D deal being for a lesser amount.

Add to this the fact I doubt Ellis would want to come back having spent most of the time out of the side (I suspect had Aiton not being out at the back end of last season, he would not have featured much at all)

Give over, that's history and it won't happen end of.

However I do agree that we need another hooker to vary thing up a bit - luckily there is no shortage of such players in SL with players capable of playing no9 our most common product.

yeah because things things work that easily in life.

fwiw i think Aiton is being overly criticised, His work from dummy half is fine, we just need a bit of variety and the ability to spell him a bit more.

wont happen but it was a poor decision to let him go as was the decision to let Howarth go we should have let Wildie go a player I ratted 2 years ago but he has gone backwards
Agar did not rate Ellis thats life and he will know we have a problem at 9 just like we do

You are all probably right that ship has sailed but think we've a problem at 9 and 13.

Probably had we not had a decent loose forward last season who finished top of the tackle count then we might have had Aiton at 13 and Ellis at 9.

Our club has a very good relationship with Leeds at the moment. James wants to get on the phone to Gary ASAP and get Liam Hood over on loan. He is dual reg at Hunslet at the moment and he would do the job we need.

It's interesting how some of the armchair experts on here have Andy Ellis down as the next Cam Smith, and yet no other SL coach has picked him up.

Some of you ought to be working as scouts, instead of wasting your talents on an interweb message board.

We have to be careful here as we are not over-flowing with home grown players in our squad. Only Annakin of our current first team is home produced, then we're inti Trout, Walshaw, Wildie, Cowling and Kay. It's nit much to show for our efforts!

We're almost onto a different subject here but, compared to the big boys, our junior development is not producing enough SL quality players compared to the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Saints etc.
Even Cas seem capable of bringing more of their youth through to SL level and this is in spite of the 1873 scheme.
Are we putting enough into the scouting/ coaching at this level or, is it a case of us being squeezed out by Leeds, Huddersfield, Bradford etc.

It is recognised by the club and there is a new emphasis on producing a smaller number of higher quality players, rather than producing a champion side. It will take time to see the results.

This has been my point all along, clearly there is a mis-match between what fans see and what coaches see. Personally with the coaches on this one as I personally saw Ellis as decent but not fantastic. I see Aiton as excellent but totally overworked.

Not sure why he let Ellis go because he did a job but more baffling is the lack of a replacement.

We certainly played better when he was in the squad!

Ellis , whilst not being outstanding did the basics very well. So I can understand why other coaches aren't breaking down his door.

Aiton is much more dynamic and therefore grabs the attention more, but his distribution from dummy half is definitely a concern, particularly if he is going to be our only hooker in the squad.

There is no doubt that he is no world beater but for me he would have been the perfect foil for Aiton if used correctly. And we now have three hookers at the club and IMHO he is better than two of those and a contrast in style to the other, so we would have been a better team had he been kept on. But his face didn't fit and Agar wanted the money spent elsewhere, thats his call. But I personally think he got the call wrongand will end up now looking for a new rake for next season. Put it this way if Aiton misses a spell again I wouldn't have much confidence in having both Wood and Wildie interchanging. Both much of a muchness and both not particularly good. I actually thought James Davey showed more promise at an early age than either of them but never kicked on.

Who says?

We continued a winning streak when he was playing - whether that was down to him is debatable. Clearly Agar didn't see what you see, I'll go with the coach who has all the facts.

As Bren suggests, there are opinions - yours and mine - and expert opinion - Agar and his staff. As I've already stated Ill go with the experts.

They are not infallible though - sometimes they get it wrong - it's human nature.

In this case we are balancing the squad size and covering positions against money against ticking the right boxes for home trained players etc.

Of the young kids we have produced, 2 of the more senior players are Wood and Wildie, with already having Smith, Sykes and Aiton, that's 5 half backs for 3 to 4 positions (depending on whether you interchange). Both Wood and Wildie will have been on less than Ellis (I imagine), and Ellis doesn't count as home produced.

So I think in this case the side has suffered as a result of the balancing act required - I guess its a reminder of how we cannot yet spend to the cap and where we are in the food chain.

Is that based on anything concrete, or just a convenient way of ascribing some blame on the coach when a player you personally like is let go?

For me, 'face doesn't fit' is apt when talking about, for example, Mathers situation at Cas, but unless you know something that's not in the public domain, I don't see how it works here?

I think the lack of opportunities until it was enforced suggests his face didn't fit, or at best Agar didn't rate the lad.

Of course they are not that's why so many don't have a job. All of what you say is correct but it wasn't really what I was digging at. What I dispute is how anyone on here you and me included can honestly think we have a better grasp of tactics and players than the coach - and we are all guilty of it. None of us know the players personally or train with them day to day or know the game of RL like they do.

They may make mistakes but at least they are informed mistakes. Fans on the other hand fall into the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category. Hence we can enjoy a heated debate about tactics and players on here all day long just so long as we never actually believe we [uknow what we are talking about[/u - and far to many do IMHO.

As Wayne Bennett famously stated "if you listen to the fans you end up sat with them" never a truer word IMHO

I think if you watch enough of anything and pay attention then you are entitled to an opinion and it not be ridiculed. IMO Ellis was a decent foil for Aiton, but his main omission was that he didn't have a kicking game and Wood did - hence the choice for most of the season. The guy was Londons player of the year in 2011 - so he had something about him - and I was chuffed when we signed him.

That Wayne Bennett quote, whilst generally valid, does lead to some coaches steadfastly refusing to listen to common sense - resulting in them being sat with the fans they wouldn't listen to!

I think we need better than what we have right now, but I can see why, on balance, we thought it better not to retain Ellis - I don't agree with it though, nor the release of Matt James without having a replacement ready. Clearly us being stuck with Mellars has had an inpact on what we can do!

That will be us then, not all the other numpties

- Ill go along with you but only just. Because I honestly don't think we have enough in depth knowledge and any real understanding of the team dynamic. I know it annoys me when people from outside my work group come in every now and then giving half baked opinions. Despite the fact that most of the time they have no real idea what's going on.

As for not listening to the fans and get sacked is a bit flawed IMHO, I mean exactly which set of fans should he be listening to. It's not like we speak with a unified voice, in fact some sets of fans seem to have opinions that are probably the result of lunacy or inbreeding. For the sake of his sanity the coach has to chuck a deafy to all fans as he has no idea who are the sane and who are the insane.

Maybe not listening to the fans as such, and I agree - we don't know / see all the goings on such as who's training the house down / who's sulking etc, all of which will get thrown in the mix. I do think sometimes that coaches can be guilty of becoming focused on certain issues whilst being oblivious to others, but they are paid for a judgement and it has been made in this case.

I remember a conversation with Shane McNally during which he was trying to convince me that our club would be massive - if only we'd relocate to Wales. I pointed out that we wouldn't then be Wakefield anymore, but he wasn't having it. I like Shane, he's a good man (and he gave me this story to use at times like this), but he wasn't very realistic on this one. The other story about Shane was that players would be dropped if they parked in his space at the club - now that's not rational and I'm sure he'd deny it, but it's a good story!