Now that the dust is begining to settle on who is in SL for the next 3 years. As supporters of RL, should we try and do something to put pressure on the RFL to abandon the system altogether and revert to P/R.

You've got more chance of putting a fire out with petrol, than getting the franchise system dropped.

Personally dont like the system and would prefer a fair P & R system but the cynic in me says that franchising was brought in so that the "bigger" clubs would never have to fear relegation if they had a bad season like Wigan did and just avoided relegation.

So I fear its here for many years to come and will probably kill off the game outside SL.

We have to work to ensure that we have a new Stadium, stable finances etc. so we don't have to go through this again.

Do you know I think the opposite, the big boys can look after themselves. Even when things look bad i.e. Wigan they will stay up by hook or by crook

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I think the main reason is expansion, it protects the weaker expansion clubs. If London drop out over the next three years they will bring P and R back. But while ever London are at the bottom of SL it will never return.

I don't like franchising but I also recognise the problems associated with P & R. The gap between SL & Championship clubs is widening and obtaining or losing a SL place requires too much change for a club to endure.

The answer, as with most black or white debates, lies somewhere in the grey area and I think the RFL need to find a system that includes elements of both.

I'd like to see a Unit set up that identifies promotion chasing clubs and let's be honest they're not hard to identify or many in number, and then advises them on the most streamlined, efficient and functional way of transforming themselves from part time to full time. There is no need for promoted clubs to reinvent the wheel, a tried and tested system which prevents clubs making mistakes that lead to loss of income, overspending and over or under resourcing areas of the clubs administrative staff. Maybe there could be staff at the RFL who undertake much of the administration required by a newly promoted club therefore removing the need for that club to employ the extra 20 to 25 staff required when switching from part to full time. That support can be reduced in year two and again in year three until the club has taken full responsibility and have stabilised as a SL club. If the club gets relegated in its first couple of years they don't find themselves having to sack 20 employees and completely dismantle their operation.

It's no different to any company employing outside agencies the big difference being that the RFL staff would be vastly experienced and would understand the challenges and therefore be better positioned to meet them on behalf of the promoted club.

Much the same system could be in place for clubs being demoted with a parachute payment being availlable to be used exclusively for dealing with the financial fallout and NOT for players, coaches or anything which directly supports team performance.

Championship clubs might cry fowl over the parachute payment but if it reopened P & R I think they would accept it.

Certain elements of the franchise criteria could still apply such as stadium facilities, youth development, financial, commercial.

Just a few thoughts

I agree, it's to protect those the RFL want to protect, namely the expansion clubs, that is also why the fair and transparent franchise findings will not be publicly published.

For the first time in a long time we are seeing most clubs really back their youngsters in the top flight.

I think the franchise system allows you this luxury at times which can only be good for the game.

I appreciate it may see some of the clubs not in SL go to the wall, but for the over all good of the game I do not think this would be the worst thing in the world.

I appreciate it would be sad to see some of the traditional clubs go to the wall, but to be honest some are run in a very amateur way as it is.

Some of the players getting paid to play the game are no better than steady away amateur players and really offer very little to the modern game.

Long term ie within 2 Franchise picks I anticipate we will almost have a closed shop system, which in turn could lead to a feeder system from 1 division below the SL similar to the NRL. This run with an U-20's comp and U-18's would be a real improvement in the 3 tear system we currently have in my opinion.

I personally do not believe the game has been as strong with a depth of quality English players since the A Team system was abolished. I think a feeder league would ensure that we get that level of strength back.

I agree that one of the positive aspects of the franchise system in the increase in younger players being given better opportunities.
However, there must be a mechanism, perhaps with promotion on a 2 or 3 year cycle that would allow this to continue.
There is a problem at present where fans of the clubs who are not succesfull in gaining "promotion" will become disaffected with the game and this number will grow whilst ever the franchise system remains in place.

When that view becomes the majority I will have had done with this great 'sport'.

A bit to Racial Cleansing for my taste.

Some of "them" would benefit from a good clean though!

hi sorry i was wandering on your forum to see your thoughts on the game against us in the coming week and stumbled accross this gem of a conversation!

for one the franchising system does work you only have to look at australia for that but it doesnt work overnight australias has been going for over 10 years and look at their international team look at the youngsters coming through and look at the different teams to win the premiership there since the franchise started in 1998 the same team has never won 2 years on the run and there have been 9 different teams to win.

i think many forget that this is to stop whover gets promoted or given the license as it is now filling there team with overseas and older players and let them find their feet and use the youth systems.

if the franchise was not in place do you really think we would be seeing the fosters, lomaxs, tomkins, evans, blythes and probably a tonne more that i cannot think of from the top of my head playing at this standard???

just my point of view but i agreed with it even though i got hounded (as my wife is a widnes fan!) but the setup needs time to adjust and time for the younger crop in the under 16s and under 18s to develop then look at the system we are still in the infancy.

hope my view is clear but i will stop ranting now

PS glad to see you around for another 3 years

pps the RFL have already said they are going to be stricter from now on and those not fulfilling their promises will be out!

the first Franchise round was a settling period

For me sport loses it's impact when the outcome isn't decided on the pitch. There has to be other better ways to give stability and aid expansion than this artificial spurious process we have now. So many games in the last third of the season are dead rubbers which says it all for me

We have seen the last club move up from the NL/ Championship to SL , enjoy yourselves people , there but for the grace of God go you

Why do you say that? Because Halifax didn't get in. The RFL made a special case for the Championship, by determining that one club would come regardless of whether it was one of the best 14 applications. Who's to say they won't do it again.

The mistake they won't repeat is to guarantee that the clubs will stay at 14.

14 is the optimum number slugger , in three years if yourselves and Cas have stadiums built or started , then the gap will be huge , and the fall from SL even bigger than now

Not going to happen

We dont operate a franchising process in Australia... here you are in and in forever or until you can't continue! There are no clubs looking over their shoulder every three years.

I just do not think tradition is enough to offer anymore.

I appreciate the move would not be universally accepted, and we may well lose some fans in the short term but rugby league is a professional sport and needs to be run like a business. We must cut the inefficiencies.

Let's not forget the last really radical move to SL upset many people, but I do not think you can question the long term success it has become. Likewise taking Australia as an example and the merger franchise clubs, short term there was a wave of anger, but not too long into the new clubs lives the fans came back.

my experience this that is not very true... some people did start to attend the merged teams games ... however I know many fans of the original unmerged teams and there is a deep simmering resentment that thier teams and culture was destroyed... particularly Balmain, Illawara and Norths fans. I know many people that have not returned to the game.

Personally before the merge I was a Wests fan... but will not support the TIgers... I became a Cronulla fan instead (by virtue of where I live)

the ones who stay away will always make the most noise, but West Tigers as a club have not suffered from low attendences/stay away fans.

You kind of prove the point I was making ie, you club was lost but you remain a league fan. Some will be lost if the smaller clubs vanish, but many will align themselves with a new club once the dust settles.

Well said Spook and the comment about the Aussies beating us is irrelevent. They've been beating us for years and although its early days, the gap is getting wider.

How many of the top clubs are sustainable without their sugar daddys, thats not buissnes its charity and it wont last.

More and more clubs are now being run by business men wanting to turn them in to profitable concerns. Hull being the most recent.

There is a world of difference between a professionally run club and a club with a "sugar daddy"
All clubs should be trying to maximise revenue and also strive to be profitable and IMHO there should always be a pathway between the divisions based on sporting performance and not just the size of someones wallet.

Hear hear!!!

I'm with you. Just cos they aren't listening doesn't mean we should speak. If enough pressure is exerted you never know. Even Communism fell in Russia