Just out of interest, who still runs this Pride Red and Green?

IMO this group hasnt been set up properly, it really should have worked with squad builder right from the start, or just left it as it was, people would more likely still be paying into squad builder. Having 2 groups isnt really working is it!?
Now my question is £10 from each person that night wheres that gone?

I believe this is a question that should be answered by Burley Cougar and On The Terraces and Mike Smith.
Pride in the Red and Green has all the facilities to run as a stand alone voice piece for the fans to air their views and generate funds for squad builder and other worth while causes. There is a website, facebook and Twitter account that has not been used in months. Can the current PIRAG Committee organize a meeting with the Directors to discuss the fan's concerns re dual reg etc and discuss next steps for the organization.
The fans can use the website to generate their own articles and funds through selling banners on the site etc. It would take effort, but the ground work has been done.

It's a fair question to ask, particularly with regards the money, but from the tone of your post it comes across that you have something against PIRAG.

Do you actually understand why it was set up and what it was trying to achieve?

Incidentally, I am not one of the organisers of PIRAG but I did contribute £10, I did go to some of the meetings, and I believe it was being set up for the right reasons.

However, I would like to know where it stands now.

I send my apologies if you think my tone of my post comes across that i have something against PIRAG, just interested where we all stand really.

I'm not having a go, but I would like you to answer the question that I asked you:



Independent supporters associations/groups are active throughout the country in Football/RL - just type [iIndependent supporters associations[/i into google and see what you come up with. They can make a big difference to a club if, and this is a big IF, the club involved don't take their bat and ball home.

As my name has been mentioned in connection to who is running 'Pirag' I thought I would make things
clear as to my position within the organisation.
S
After Iain Buchan stood down Myself and a another member triedto organise two meetings
where we could get all members together and decide which route to go down while waiting
For the long drawn out 'Supporters Association' application to go through.
All members were emailed or phoned from the list I had , which I may add
was incomplete.
The grand sum of one person turned up to both meetings.

Twitter ,Facebook & website are also mentioned , I do not have passwords
and I have NO access to these accounts.

Also mentioed was the money raised by membership fees.
I understand there is approx £400 ish in the organisation account ,Again ,I have
NO ACCESS to this bank account.
From what I understand ,when Iain Buchan stepped down the
bank details etc were handed over to the Treasurer who was Mary Calvert.
As for the future Of Pirag I am not sure who is running it as I have
not heard anything from anyone since Myself and another member tried
to organise the meetings that no one attended.
I tried to contact Mary Calvert but my Phonecalls and emails were never answered.
So ,there you have it , you know as much as I do.

A

Why did Iain Buchan decide to stand down?
And was Mary then taking it over?

If I remember correctly Iain said in an email to members his business was getting busier and
that had to come first.

Mary Calvert was the treasurer I believe , I don't actually know who the running
of Pirag was handed over to as I missed a couple of meetings.

All monies raised from membership , around £400 ish is in a bank account
and is safe.

If anyone is interested I suppose we could try and get another meeting organised
but it would have to be supported well .

According to a previous thread on PIRAG, which On The Terraces created, a meeting was held and a committee was elected of which Burley Cougar, implied he was a member. Can On The Terraces up date the members with the names of the new committee so the ordinary members know who is in charge and all the conjecture can stop.

Iain , Baring in mind that I actually missed a couple of meetings due to medication issues , i never attended any meeting where I was voted onto any committee. All that I attended was a meeting where a group of members got together with the main issue of raising money for the Squadbuilder fund. If I was voted on to an official committee in my absence then fair enough but this I am unaware of.
If ontheterraces or any other Pirag members can verify this the n please feel free to comment and let me know.
After that myself and another member organised two meetings which only 1 member of pirag attended . We took this as a general lack of interest so decided not to organise any more meetings for the time being. I tried to phone Mary Calvert to inform her about the two unsucessful meetings but my call was unanswered........as was an email I sent her. I also informed Rob Weir of the situation as he was unable to attend....... I'm sure he would confirm that.

Since then I have heard nothing from anyone regarding Pirag with the exception of the odd informal conversation with Rob about it.
I have no idea who is in charge of Pirag and who is dealing with the day to day issues as no contact has been made by anyone.
Also , as a general reminder to anyone who is interested I have never had any access toany social media or any passwords to such
and never any access at all to the organisations Bank account .

By the tone of your post I presume you have an issue with me , why I do not know as I have never done or said anything to offend
you and the last time we spoke we did not part on bad terms. If this is the case Iain then please let me know what I have done wrong ,
If you do not wish to discuss things on this forum feel free tob phone me , you have my phone number and I beleive you know where I live if you would rather speak face to face.

From the reading this thread it's clear that nobody actually knows who's on the committee. There is no transparency and maybe this all goes to explain why PIRAG never really took off. I didn't contribute, but surely members have the right to a say on what happens to that money accrued?

Sorry if you are not a member of the new committe, however, your post of the 15/12/12 gives the impression that you are part of the committe and attended the meeting.

For the record John, there was no tone in my previous post other than business like, however, I am getting frustrated that there are legitimate questions being asked re PIRAG yet, for what ever reason, are not being answered.

To put it in a nutshell , my use of the word committee has confused the issue , I used it as a loose term for a group of people who had got together to do some fundraising while we waited for the ' supporters trust ' to go through the motions , I should have worded it different as there had not been a meeting after you standing down that a committee had been voted on ..... just an informal gathering wwhere we decided what to do while waitiing. Perhaps had I been of clearer mind instead of ' brainfarting ' on the new dose of opioids things wouldn't have gone this far lol. I have also looked at your previous post wrong too mistaking Business like for attitude ...... My mistake Iain.

Regarding your frustration , fair enough , you put in a hell of a lot of legwork getting it off the ground , questions are being asked and no answers are being provided. Theb simple answer is I have no idea who is ' in charg ' of pirag , the only bperson I can suggest is Mary calvert as she is / was the treasurer. I have tried to contact her but never had my calls / emails answered.

About the money raised from membership , I presume that will be handed to squadbuilder at some point ..... sooner rather than later.

well lets try and put a few things straight!!!

Yes I was heavily involved in PIRAG along with a few others, in my honest opinion PIRAG was a great idea that was created by a very passionate group of fans that had no hidden agendas other than to help the club NOT THE DIRECTORS just the club. It was never intended to go into competition with the club or Squad Builder as it was only ever intended to help by raising more much needed funds for Squad Builder, helping by building a strong volunteer group that could help maintain the ground and help out on matchdays. Long before the very first meeting was called when we started getting fans to become members the group worked very hard getting a bank account set up, ideas in place and not forgetting the work Rach put in designing the website. Things were going smoothly and after a few meetings with fans/members things started to fizzle out in terms of support, as soon as we started talking about voting on a commitee and who would be responsible for what role that was when it was clear we didn't have much support.

After numerous e-mail to members to try and sort things out with no reply we decided to pick people out from the club, members and fans that we knew were passionate about the club and have helped in the past to try and put together some sort of commitee just to get things up and running and start to raise the cash that Squad Builder needs.

Mary Calvert was asked to Chair, Margeret Proctor was asked to look after the money side of things and the rest of us was going to work as a group to arrange raffles, events and to try and create a volunteer team.

Just before I continue, Iain it is quite easy to come on here and paint yourself out to be the good guy that is standing up for the members and to be honest I don't really want to get into a slanging match with you but if I remember correctly you left because me, you and the others were finding it hard to work together and when asked for information on members to carry on taking the group forward you have made it difficult. As far as I'm aware the only person that has the bank account, log in details for twitter and facebook along with all the other info is IAIN??
Rach has the details for the website and I am sure she wouldn't mind posting things on there if asked.

PIRAG and Sqaud Builder could be fantastic for the club if people would attend meetings and help arrange things and show some interest, its easy to come on here and ask whats going on and why isn't this done and who's doing this but we all felt like we were banging our heads against a brick wall.

Now for the reason why I took a step back from it all and I think why others did too, oh and for the doubters or the people that think I have an axe to grind just ask the people that attended the meeting I am going to tell you about.
A meeting was called to meet the directors to see what support we had and what we would be allowed to do on a matchday in terms of raising funds. Myself, Mike Smith, Margeret Proctor and I'm sorry I cant remember the other guys name who was there but we met with Gary Fawcett and Pete Spencer. The meeting was going well until once again the true colours of our fantastic board shone through. I aren't speaking for anyone but for us as fans that care about the clubs best interest and only trying to help to be sat at a table and be continously insulted was the final straw for me, the comments made from Mr Spencer was I have more money than you to Mike Smith and this was said numerous times through out the meeting, Mike smith was also challenged by Mr Spencer on what have you ever done for this place which to be honest my jaw hit the floor as Mike answered take a look around you because that is what we did

After numerous comments of I dont care what the fans think, Im not bothered if the fans like me or not and this is our club Mrs Proctor said if it wasn't for SB last year you wouldn't have probably had the players you got in Korki, obst, semi, barnet etc. Not forgetting that this lady has worked very hard and a lot of unpaid hours putting SB together, organising events, standing on the gates before games handing out leaflets, signing up new members, letters out to members when needed, birthday cards, keeping an audit trail of everything, dealing with the banking and many many more tasks only to be told by Mr Spencer that they would manage without SB and he coulod have bought all the players himself and when aske well why didn't you his reply was I didn't want to.
More and more shocking stuff was said and this post is long enough without boring you of all the details but for now that is why I have pulled away because they were putting too many hurdles in front of us regarding raising funds and after listening to the way they disrespected everyone around the table especially Mrs Proctor that was it for me.

These guys really believe they are taking this club to super league and they also believe that they are running the club better than its ever been run before and are the helm of a top championship club.

One last thing Mr Spencer also stated at the table that Cougar Mania was a failure



Try work that one out.

" Cougarmania was a failure " .... The mind boggles !
He must have been watching a different Cougarmania is all I can think of lol

Has a nice staightjacket been found for Mr Spencer yet? Sounds like it would be a useful addition to his wardrobe, as it is used for the mentally crazy sometimes!

The comments made by Mr Spencer, to be honest nothing surprises me any more. Did have high hopes for Gary at the start but now feel very disappointed. If you volunteer to do anything with this club be prepared to be covered in turd. From a great height. Such a shame as there is a lot of people whose heart is in this club.

It's such a crying shame that this is where PIRAG now stands.

A properly constituted and supported INDEPENDANT supporters group could do so much for this club (like KISA before it). There are other instances where the club they are trying to support don't offer support in return, or even worse, see them as some sort of threat. Unfortunately it quite often comes down to [i"clash of personality"[/i.

Cutting your own throat to spite your face, springs to mind.

Ok people.

Lets not turn this into a slanging match. Lets try to keep it civil. Please

Rob, Thank you for your post it certainly makes for illuminating reading, however, there are a number of instances in your post where you are ignorant of the facts or being deliberately disingenuous and these need to be cleared up.


1. The information you elude to was meant to be held and up dated by Mary Calvert as she was in charge of taking membership forms at the club and via the web site of which I had no access to. An e-mail with the membership list was forwarded to Mike Smith as well as the had copy membership forms and other documentation on my departure. I fail to see how this is being obstructive and if you have any issue with the quality of the information I suggest you take this up with Mary Calvert. I would point out that 5 individuals whose contact details were included on the list were not contacted. I will take it that this was an oversight and not a selected invitation to your meetings.

2. Re passwords. Rachel Pressley was given the Twitter and Facebook passwords to add as links on to the website. I suggest you look at the web site which evidences the fact.
The bank ac log in I still have, and have never been requested to provide it, however, Mary Calvert has from day one had possession of the cash box, Cheque Book and Paying In Book as, again, she was responsible for processing membership applications via walk ins at the club and internet.

To get back to topic. You have now confirmed that Mary Calvert (Chairperson), Rob Weir and Mike Smith, as you both attended the meeting with the directors, are in control of PIRAG going forward and any questions re the group should be directed to those indviduals. Thank you for the clarification.

Firstly, Iain this is why you parted from the group because people found it hard to work with you along with a few other reasons. I am not getting dragged into a verbal fight on here with you even though I admit I would enjoy it. Everything that I stated in my previous post is what I am lead to believe by others in the group, unfortunately as we found the support just wasn't there and it wasn't always the directors that were questioning our motives but a few on here as well which we found very dissapointing because all we were trying to do was to help, create more funds for the playing side and try to make it this local commuinty club that it once was which is something the current board keep shouting about but apart from the fantastic work that Your Sporting Chance does headed by Mary Calvert in the town there is nothing else going on or if there is I haven't heard anything about it. I agree with what dreamer said about what could have been with the right support and input from the club with regards to PIRAG, all you have to do is look at some of the other clubs websites and see what their supporters clubs do and raise for their clubs because it's fantastic. I think Leigh last year in Oct/Nov handed over for player recruitment about £30,000, ok they have been going a number of years but this is what can be achieved and this is how we see the likes of top championship players or super league boys coming to our club but then again as we were told the club could manage without a Squad Builder contributing to the team as they can afford the players them selves



Hand on heart I would love to roll my sleeves up and get stuck in with PIRAG and a supporters group but when you have individuals that have no respect or appreciation for what you are trying to do for them and the club and only see you as a threat or someone thats making up a master plan to take of the world then its impossible. unfortuantely and this is a fact our board just cant see the bigger picture only that they are taking us to super league



Iain as I have said I could reply to most of what you have stated or eluded to but it would end up in an argument and I honestly cant be bothered, I would just like to say as I have once told you before. Please do not talk down to me, talk to me like a child or use your silly text book words. You know I dont take lightly to that.

All the best

Could some body give me a hand,and pass me a ladder,I am going to have to climb of the fence that I have been sat on for the last 6 months,I will have to say I have enjoyed reading everyone's post in the recent tough times and I am pleased that people care so much about the Cougars and that good frank debate is alive and well on here no matter what your views are.
The reason for the post really is just to back up, "On The Terrace,s" post regarding what he had experienced at the club ,I had a real feeling of history repeating its self,for those who don't know me I was one of the founding members of KISA,and I am saddened to say "On The Terrace's" post had a familiar ring to it,I don't wish to discuss certain aspects on this forum of what happened back in 2002 ,but would gladly talk to anyone in person on what happened from KISA's and my point of view,(I do use my real name on here so I am not that hard to find on match days,in the bar or behind the sticks).
Saying Am not going to discuss on here KISA isn't strictly true,I will post an article from Feb 2002 which is from a local archive, its a story taken from a local district News paper,(thanks to a certain someone on here who passed me this a few years ago) I think it says a lot about peoples attitudes, and really looks like sadly nothing has changed at the Club. Any-time I get the urge to get involved down there I tend to read this(see below) and then think "maybe not",but hats off to all you guys who do volunteer your the true back bone of the club.

COUGARS;Bitter War Of Words
Open warfare has broken out between Cougar chairman Neil Spencer and KISA-Keighley Independent Supporters Association.
The independent supporters club was launched when the old club collapsed with huge debts,but relations have been 'frosty' since the new club Cougars 2001 was launched by Mr Spencer and fellow director Colin Farrar late last year.
Tension boiled over this week when Mr Spencer declared "The time has come,for the sake of true Cougar supporters,to put the record straight. The so called KISA, do nothing at all to help the Keighley Cougars financially or otherwise,on the contrary they are a hindrance.They are the greatest wingers about anything and everything"
He also threatened to take legal action against the group for selling merchandise in competition to the club.
He added;"They are setting up a lottery in competition to our own,not only that they are pinching the clubs existing agents and members.What kind of co-operation is that"
Mr Spencer said true supporters should ask where their money was going,and join the official Supporters Club.
His statement ended"If you are a true KISA member go away and annoy someone else,you are certainly not wanted here"
But KISA chairman Martin Whiteley hit back with claims, that the cub had said it did not want there help"Almost every club in rugby league has an independent supporters club and many provide very valuable support.We wanted something totally different to help the club,and the whole of rugby league in Keighley.
"We applied for a small lotteries licence to run fund raising events,but the application was rejected because Mr Spencer said they didn't want our money.We have already sponsored a player and bought junior season tickets to give away as prizes,so some money has already gone to the club."
"We have over 100 members,about 10 percent of the home crowd, and most supporters who travel to away matches are members of KISA,we want to work for the good of rugby league in the town and we should all be pulling in the same direction."
He added; "I am prepared to meet Mr Spencer and the Official Supporters Club to try and clear the air"
February 15th 2002

Just a foot note on the above,we did meet various people from the club on several occasions and tried to find the middle ground but the door was firmly shut on KISA,hence many of the members did take Mr Spencer up on his offer and basically went away,some I know to this day have not set foot in Cougar Park since those days,and it wasn't just single members they lost,it was also family and friends that no longer came to the ground.I personally did stick around with a few other's that I know who post on here,the reason being I love the game,I love the Cougars but most of all love the crack and the people I stand with,a few beers good company and Rugby League what better way to spend a Sunday afternoon.
Just a bit of advice to the PIRAG guys, KISA was well run well supported and had some cracking money making ideas,but most of all we were all friends and had the same goal,yes there were arguments but on the whole we were a united bunch,and showed a united front,and we were stronger for it,but even with all that behind us we still fell well short of our goals,and in the end it still ended in tears.
My advice I am afraid is unless your bullet proof thick skinned, don't mind upsetting half the people down there and missing the game because your to busy behind the scenes, then just pay your gate money,maybe even buy a season ticket,have a few beers,treat yourself to a snack or food,even buy a club shirt or some merchandise(if you can find any,sorry couldn't help myself), don't forget the half time draw,even bring a friend that hasn't been before or for a while,if I have missed anything apologies,but you get the drift, and of course don't forget there is a game on,after all it is the whole point,so just enjoy to me what is the best dam game in the world "RUGBY LEAGUE".
Hang on someone pass me my ladder I am getting back on my fence,although I have just read that back and I am not sure I even got of it,must be going soft in my old age.

Can I suggest this thread is locked to avoid this getting out of hand?

One of many definitions of the word Forum "a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest" sort of thought that what was going on here.

In fairness Shaun I think it's gone a bit beyond that don't you think?