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| Quote ="WBFOP"Jon Gruden is a great self publicist. He did some good things at Oakland but he also started to build a roster that was heavy with over priced ageing veterans. Since the Superbowl the Raiders have been paying for that.
In Tampa he took Tony Dungy's defense, which reached pretty much its peak and won a Superbowl. After the Superbowl season Gruden went 45-51 with the Bucs and IMHO it was only Monte Kiffin's handling of the defense that got him that many wins.
He is thought of as this great offensive mind that came through under Mike Holmgren/Andy Reid's tutelage, but he is not. Look at the revolving door of QB's that rolled through Tampa on his watch and then hey presto he leaves and they get a franchise QB in Josh Freeman, go figure.
He also alienates too many players with his attitude and has been called a back stabber by many others.
.'"
Or I could have read through the rest of the thread and noticed you said the same 
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| Quote ="Harrigan"This
Go on any Bucs board and you cant get through a thread without someone b[ii[/itching about the state he left us in
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Do you know since 2003 we have only been in the playoffs twice and lost both games? Our record under him from 2003-2008 was 46-52.
He took over the Dungy team and managed to take us that 1 step further but then took us down hill after he made the team his own.'"
Led you to a division title in 2007 but then you got stomped out by the eventual champion New York Football Giants.
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| Quote ="Nikaed"Led you to a division title in 2007 but then you got stomped out by the eventual champion New York Football Giants.'"
Yeah, we were 9-3 after week 13. Finished 10-6 and a playoff loss. Its like the 2008 season. We were 10-2 after week 13 and flying into the bye. 4 weeks later we are 10-6 and we dont even make the play offs. 1 win in the last 4 weeks over 2 years isnt the sign of a good coach is it
Compare that to Raheem with his limited options and he has already won 5 out of 8 in that important last 4 games of the year.
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| Quote ="Nikaed"What doubters?'"
those who don't think he is as good as Brady and Manning, those who think he needs to win a play-off game to be great, those who snubbed him from the pro-bowl, all those teams who passed over him in the draft, everybody who says he isn't clutch.
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| Aside from this forum, what sites/forums do everyone else use for NFL news etc?
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| Quote ="Emiliano Zapata"Aside from this forum, what sites/forums do everyone else use for NFL news etc?'"
Im a member on tbaybucs.com but as you can tell by the name thats mainly our own stuff thats discussed.
NFLUK.com is pretty good but my main news source comes from the NFL page on FaceBook. They update all the time and it goes on your newsfeed. Twitters also good if you know who to follow. Jason La Canfora's very active.
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| Quote ="Harrigan"Im a member on tbaybucs.com but as you can tell by the name thats mainly our own stuff thats discussed.
NFLUK.com is pretty good but my main news source comes from the NFL page on FaceBook. They update all the time and it goes on your newsfeed. Twitters also good if you know who to follow. Jason La Canfora's very active.'"
As you showed me multiple times last week.
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| Quote ="Ande"As you showed me multiple times last week.'"
When?
Check out the chat thread on Southstander. Loz tried to slate me down for Sunday but it soon got turned around on him 
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| Quote ="ST_CONROY"those who don't think he is as good as Brady and Manning, those who think he needs to win a play-off game to be great, those who snubbed him from the pro-bowl, all those teams who passed over him in the draft, everybody who says he isn't clutch.'"
Might well turn out to be the most clutch passer ever. He just hasn't done it "yet". I'm 100% sure he will though. It's been hard for him this year.
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| Quote ="Emiliano Zapata"Aside from this forum, what sites/forums do everyone else use for NFL news etc?'"
mortreport and Schefter on twitter for NFL news.
giantspathanlon
TheBlueScreen
ESPN New York
Giants.com
for Giants related news. I kinda edge towards the NBA this time of year. Mainly due to the Giants having not made the playoffs or gone out in the first round.
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| I get most of my info from [url=http://www.profootballtalk.comPFT[/url
JLC's twitter is just repeating what everyone else has said first. 
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| Quote ="Dodo"
JLC's twitter is just repeating what everyone else has said first.
'"
To be fair most of the people I follow NFL wise do the same 
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| Quote ="ST_CONROY"those who don't think he is as good as Brady and Manning, those who think he needs to win a play-off game to be great, those who snubbed him from the pro-bowl, all those teams who passed over him in the draft, everybody who says he isn't clutch.'"
Rodgers is excellent. Most sensible people would admit that. Sure, he has a few boxes to tick in terms of experience but he's already in the upper echelon.
Obviously he is nowhere near as good as Manning or Brady but that's hardly a criticism.
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| Quote ="Nikaed"Might well turn out to be the most clutch passer ever. He just hasn't done it "yet". I'm 100% sure he will though. It's been hard for him this year.'"
Quote ="Ian 77 Redux"Rodgers is excellent. Most sensible people would admit that. Sure, he has a few boxes to tick in terms of experience but he's already in the upper echelon.'"
I'm not going to talk about Rodgers anymore*, it's been done to death and we all have differing opinions.
I think he is at least as good as Brady/Manning. It just annoys me that he doesn't get the credit he deserves. Rivers was widely regarded as MVP candidate until a few weeks back despite being on a poor team. Rodgers has led a team with a hard schedule to the play-offs despite crippling injuries and has maintained his excellent stats yet isn't in the conversation. Equally his stats/performances are as good as the NFC starting pro-bowl QB yet he is snubbed.
This game is as important to get Rodgers his first play-off win as it is advancing.
*I reserve the right to make some posts about how he is brilliant if we win @ Philly.
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| Quote ="LFCPatriotRhino"The Dolphins have decided to keep Sparano
[uTranslation[/u:- Even $8 million wasn't enought to get Harbaugh because he is a money grabbing barsteward and someone has offered him more
If I was Sparano I would be pretty annoyed to be honest'"
The early indication was that he was angling for a move to his alma mater Michigan. They have fired Rich Rodriguez.
Now I see that the Broncos, 49ers and Dolphins have got into the mix. The Broncos have just ruled themselves out, probably balking at paying that amount for someone with no NFL head coaching experience. Rumour is Harbaugh wants at least the same deal that Pete Carroll got with the Seahawks ($6.5m) per year.
Stanford have matched the 49ers initial offer of $4.5m.
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| Quote ="ST_CONROY"I'm not going to talk about Rodgers anymore*, it's been done to death and we all have differing opinions.
I think he is at least as good as Brady/Manning. It just annoys me that he doesn't get the credit he deserves. Rivers was widely regarded as MVP candidate until a few weeks back despite being on a poor team. Rodgers has led a team with a hard schedule to the play-offs despite crippling injuries and has maintained his excellent stats yet isn't in the conversation. Equally his stats/performances are as good as the NFC starting pro-bowl QB yet he is snubbed.
This game is as important to get Rodgers his first play-off win as it is advancing.
*I reserve the right to make some posts about how he is brilliant if we win @ Philly.'"
0 Division Titles
0 Playoff Wins
Got it all to do. 
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| Jim Harbaugh new coach of the 49ers
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| Quote ="ST_CONROY"those who don't think he is as good as Brady and Manning, those who think he needs to win a play-off game to be great, those who snubbed him from the pro-bowl, all those teams who passed over him in the draft, everybody who says he isn't clutch.'"
I love A-Rod I hope GB go to the SB and win me a fortune  But: He isnt as good as those 2 yet, but he has done an amazing job in the last 2 years. Hopefully these doubts will be gone after a play off run that I hope gets out of Philly.
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| Quote ="Nikaed"0 Division Titles
0 Playoff Wins
Got it all to do.
'"
I may be wrong but hasn't he only had 1 play off game as a starter
Unless Ive lost my memory again 
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| Conroy, I agree with lots you say but come on, take the cheesy specs off! Rodgers is in the group well below Manning and Brady along with Brees, Rivers and the like.
Rivers was in the MVP debate because of some record setting numbers with 3rd 4th and 5th string receivers.
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| Quote ="El Pac Carnegie"Jim Harbaugh new coach of the 49ers'"
Andrew Luck to declare now and pull an Elisha.
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| Last chance for Alex Smith? Or the first time for him to be properly tutored? Riddles galore this friday night
49ers need an RB too in the mid rounds otherwise Gore wont last forever, theyre pretty sorted on D, they're not that bad an organisation especially with Divisonal rivals being a bif iffy.
(Didn't we all say this last year  )
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| Quote ="ST_CONROY"Andrew Luck to declare now and pull an Elisha.'"
It wouldn't suprise me
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| Quote ="Bettingtolose"Last chance for Alex Smith? Or the first time for him to be properly tutored? Riddles galore this friday night
49ers need an RB too in the mid rounds otherwise Gore wont last forever, theyre pretty sorted on D, they're not that bad an organisation especially with Divisonal rivals being a bif iffy.
(Didn't we all say this last year
)'"
TBH I believe Westbrook and Dixon are more then good enough to be 2nd and 3rd to Gore.
It'll be interesting to see what Harbaugh will do to the offense.
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| NFL countdown on espn america at 4pm folks.
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