Hideous post mate, I'm gutted today. I can't understand how any Evertonian could say they're happy with how things went yesterday. We're considerably weaker for the transfer window and the only place that will see the money is the bank. We were weak upfront before yesterday and we lost two strikers and brough in someone who's a big gamble, as is Drenthe he could be great if he finds his Dutch/early Real Madrid form or he could be Andy Van Der Meyde reincarnated. Look at that team and you can honestly say you're happy with it? No chance, Osman is a poor/average midfielder to now think he will control out play is a terrible thought, if Saha gets injured we have Denis to come in and that's it, Anichebe will not score goals. Look at the midfield, you have a 17 year old kid as a starting central midfielder, that's not how he should be played he should be brought through gradually, he can't start every week now but we don't have options. Look at the state of the bench, there's no quality on there, there's no game changers either. We had an extremely weak squad as it was which has now got even weaker, we have a few injuries or suspensions and fook knows who will come in. To say Arteta going doesn't matter is foolish, really foolish.

We'll miss Teta, no question. But there is life after one player. Fellaini and Rodwell has the makings of a secure midfield so hopefully we'll be sound defensively. Nothing better than a good 1-0.

Listening to the South American correspondant on the radio this morning, this striker we've signed doesn't sound like too much of a gamble. He reckons he's a cracking signing and he would be surprised if Moyes didn't use him from the word go. Reckons he'll end up at Juve post loan with Everton.

Arteta been gash since he got injured/signed a new contract. I would rather have lost him than Jags , Baines , Felliani, Rodwell(all our big money players).

When u say we lost 2 strikers u cant count Yakubu as he wasnt even there 2nd half of season. So we lost one(who we made a tidy profit on) and got another one in who could very easily do a job for us upfront.

On Osman, he showed arteta up last year thats why he played out wide because moyes knew osman was doing a better job in centre .

The 17 million we made on transfers will all go to bank but that a fair chunk to put of the debt , would u rather have spent that and stayed in the same place financial wise. Also look at wages now off the books thats afew million saved. If we want the club to remain competitive in future this was a must. We dont wanan end up like leeds , portsmouth and i could carry on ha

We might need to get used to the 1-0's again this season. There is life after one player, no doubt but we are a lot weaker for losing Beckford and Arteta. Defensively we were sound anyway, it's the other end of the pitch which concerns me.



Don't get me wrong I'm not leading the Arteta fan club, as I said on here last night it isn't so much the losing of Arteta that's the big concern it was the timing of the transfer, the fact Moyes won't see any of the money and we are considerably weaker for the transfer. You can't honestly look at that midfield and think there's enough quality/experience to challenge at the top of the table this season?

Osman was a better player granted but Arteta was injured and couldn't find his form, Osman is on the whole an average player who can play well at times but a lot of the time he doens't. As for the strikers, that was the point we hardly had any as it was, we needed additions upfront before we lost Beckford so in effect it is one in and one out. I think Moyes has made two astute signings and we needed someone to play down the left sine Pienaar went, hopefully Drenthe will link up with Baines like Pienaar did and he's on a free next season so we might even make it permanent.

If I was Moyes I'd have:

GK The Wall of Howard
DR Neville
DCR Jagielka
DCL Distin
DL Baines
MR Coleman
DMC Rodwell
DMC Felaini
ML Drenthe
AMC Cahill/Billy
SC Denis

I'd play Billy centre in the Cahill role. He scores plenty for Russia from there and he can pick a pass without having to worry about running and the other stuff he doesn't like, like tracking back.

Just been reading a few Tweets from Karlsentk on Twitter, who's generally spot on with his views on players. He doesn't rate Denis that well, thinks he looks like a centre back playing up front due to lack of mobility. Should be interesting to see how he gets on, all he needs to add is height for those 'long passes' Everton play.

Who is Karlsentk? He's scored quite a few cracking goals in the argentinian league system judging by his youtube videos. Decent finisher, strong, good from outside the box and good in the air. If he's not an improvement on Beckford or Anichebe I'll be surprised.

Was it really 10 years ago? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14622187.stm Just a pity the so called 'Golden Generation' never lived up to all the hype, but it was great finally sticking it to the Germans after all the misery they have inflicted upon us. youtu.be/WJ0uIKjommQ

Was it really 10 years ago? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14622187.stm Just a pity the so called 'Golden Generation' never lived up to all the hype, but it was great finally sticking it to the Germans after all the misery they have inflicted upon us. youtu.be/WJ0uIKjommQ

Quote ="Saddened!"Who is Karlsentk? He's scored quite a few cracking goals in the argentinian league system judging by his youtube videos. Decent finisher, strong, good from outside the box and good in the air. If he's not an improvement on Beckford or Anichebe I'll be surprised.'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 156815.stm There's an interview with him on the beeb. He's a former scout/chief scout/director of football, he knows his stuff. He mentioned he has qualities, just felt he didn't bring much to Everton.

Quote ="Saddened!"Who is Karlsentk? He's scored quite a few cracking goals in the argentinian league system judging by his youtube videos. Decent finisher, strong, good from outside the box and good in the air. If he's not an improvement on Beckford or Anichebe I'll be surprised.'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 156815.stm There's an interview with him on the beeb. He's a former scout/chief scout/director of football, he knows his stuff. He mentioned he has qualities, just felt he didn't bring much to Everton.

Aye, he's knowledgeable but he's by no means always right. He recently said that Nasri and Silva couldn't play together. I just cannot see him being right about that. I'd rather trust Mancini's judgement, thank you - not a DoF or scout but someone who was a top class footballer and won trophies with at least 4 clubs in two of the best leagues in world football.

I never said he's always right, but in terms of a general view of a player coming from the unknown, his opinion's a pretty good one to have.

Whether Nasri and Silva can play together will obviously be seen over the course of the season, me personally, I feel Mancini will eventually fall back to his 4-3-3 (basically that, call it a 4-2-3-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-3-1-2, whatever) as the season goes on. I think a lot will depend on Nasri's ability to play 'further back', as I do feel City lack a deeper ball player (don't say Barry), Nasri could be that player, but I doubt he'll be played there.

Still, football is all about opinions, and, whilst Mancini has achieved a lot through his career, he's also not perfect, and success as a player means nothing in terms of judgment as a manager, as the great Maradona showcased just over a year ago.

Wouldn’t disagree too much with that.



What makes you say we need a ball player ‘further back’?

If you can point out where I said Barry is a ‘ball player’, that would be great.



He is certainly not perfect and I agree that great players don’t make great managers, However, I would imagine that his background in football would make him a much better judge of players and tactics than someone like Karlssen. In fact, it would be ridiculous to think otherwise.

Spot on for me, exactly as I'd see it too. This is the side that I'd like to see play the only thing that probably will change for Villa is Saha starting instead of Denis.



Would you not lose something by playing Nasri further back, he looked brilliant in his first game for City and attacked really really well. His vision was good and his direct attack to Spurs goal was quality, similarly as he did at Arsenal, time and again we saw how good Nasri was going forward by City playing him further back it'd seem they'd lose something.



Spot on for me, exactly as I'd see it too. This is the side that I'd like to see play the only thing that probably will change for Villa is Saha starting instead of Denis.



Would you not lose something by playing Nasri further back, he looked brilliant in his first game for City and attacked really really well. His vision was good and his direct attack to Spurs goal was quality, similarly as he did at Arsenal, time and again we saw how good Nasri was going forward by City playing him further back it'd seem they'd lose something.



Is there an interview with him where he mentions Denis or is it just the tweet's that you've seen. I've read the Tweets and the things he mentions are exactly what concerned me when we signed him.

Quote ="tiger2000"Was it really 10 years ago? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14622187.stm Just a pity the so called 'Golden Generation' never lived up to all the hype, but it was great finally sticking it to the Germans after all the misery they have inflicted upon us. youtu.be/WJ0uIKjommQ'" The bestvthing about that game was that England outplayed a good German side rather than them simply not playing well. A great night but we only won two of the next nine.

Quote ="tiger2000"Was it really 10 years ago? news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14622187.stm Just a pity the so called 'Golden Generation' never lived up to all the hype, but it was great finally sticking it to the Germans after all the misery they have inflicted upon us. youtu.be/WJ0uIKjommQ'" The bestvthing about that game was that England outplayed a good German side rather than them simply not playing well. A great night but we only won two of the next nine.

Yup, we'll be lucky to see Denis from the start I'll admit. What is Saha up to these days? How come he didn't start the first games? Injured or just not preferred?

Someone has posted on Bluemoon a video compilation of Barry's performance against Spurs. Every touch including mistakes and his booking. Its seriously impressive. You certainly wouldnt describe him as a "ball player" but that was a really effective display.

nicked from elsewhere, but some of the oldies might appreciate looking back at when City last had a few of the best players in the world

You'd need a ball player 'further back' as it seems to be a hallmark of most of the better sides over recent years. Look at Madrid and Barca with Xavi and Xabi running things. Last year, when Mancini played that three man midfield (Barry, de Jong, Toure), the biggest problem was the lack of creativity/composure/level of passing, i.e. you had nobody on the level of somebody like Fabregas or Alonso. When playing a three man midfield, it's generally important for one of those players to be outstanding on the ball. Now I know Silva is, but he plays further up.

I never said you said Barry was, just a sly dig at a player I don't particularly rate in comparison to some of your recent marquee signings.

You would expect Mancini to be the better judge, with him being a manager and all that, but I never said Mancini wasn't a better judge, you simply brought up that you'd take Mancini's opinion over his, which is fair enough, but if you seriously believe for one minute that Mancini scouted and picked all of City's signings, you're a mad man. Every club has scouts watching all of the good players around the world, it's these scouts that report things back to the manager or DOF. Now, if Karlsen has worked as a scout, giving his opinion and match reports on players to managers/DOF's, then it isn't too farfetched to believe that he's better at spotting talent than Mancini (I'll add this before you attempt to verbally fist me, I'm not saying Karlsen is better, just that it isn't too farfetched to believe he is). However, the problem with a scout is they're there to spot a player's talent, Mancini is there to be a manager, so if Mancini signs a player believing they can play together, then you'd 100% take Mancini's view over the scout, as the manager clearly has a stronger grasp of tactics and how he wants his systems to work.

You would lose something moving Nasri further back, the only reason I said he may be moved further back was if Mancini would bring back the three man midfield. If he was to go with the probable front three of Aguero, Dzeko and Silva, then you would have to accommodate Nasri deeper if you wanted to include him in a three man midfield.

As for Karlsen, I haven't read any interviews with him, I just put that interview on there as it mentioned a little about his background. I just read his tweets on Denis, but I'm sure if you have a decent search on Twitter or any other football related website, you could probably find better, more detailed opinions.

I have already done that. A wee Argentinian boy, a Tigres fan has created his idea of what Denis should be like on FIFA. 98 heading accuracy, 96 long shots, 97 finishing, 99 strength and 75 speed. And so it shall be.

Sounds like Oscar Cardozo on FM09

Apparently Papass Demba Cisse was keen to join Newcastle, just we weren't prepared to pay the extra bit of money. He's been on fire in Germany over the past season or so.

Still, why would the board spend £15m when their sole target is simply to stay in the league.

You're not on your own. Staying in the Premier League is the main aim for at least half the clubs these days. Every once in a while a club like Fulham, Bolton or Sunderland will have a top half finish and the fans will get ahead of themselves with talk of European football. If you listen to the managers though they're far more cautious, often talking about the 40 point mark.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14754447.stm Celtic scouse their way into Europe.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14754447.stm Celtic scouse their way into Europe.

Everton name just 18 squad members out of a maximum of 25.