You had to go and open that can of worms, didn't you? You couldn't just leave it alone

So when is Rafa being sacked then? ? ?

It's not Benitez's fault.

It is.

He scored the equaliser to get Birmingham into the game.







I'll get my coat...

Crazy result tonight, but I can't even say I'm surprised. I'm sure we've all seen the stats from the game. Birmingham were never in it, but as per, we gift a goal on a set piece then lose our way for that half. The second half was as one sided as it gets, but our lack of end product shown.

Our form tells its own story, 1 win in the past 9 in all comps, on the brink of exit in the CL and a squad rock bottom on confidence, people call it knee-jerking, but it's well beyond a knee-jerk IMO.


On a side note, how good was Johnson tonight? I know people will disagree with his price tag, but for me, he's been the best right back in the league this year and he was easily up there last year. Fantastic player, his defensive game is improving every week, too.

Johnson is probably the best signing Rafa has made in quite a while.

What did you make of the penalty?

Lots of controversy this weekend.

Dive, but I don't know what Waddle was talking about when he said the ref should have saw it. Watching it live, I said stonewall pen straight away, showing it from the ref's angle and I said the same, showing it from ESPN's close up, slow motion angle, then it was a clear as day dive. Which I do not condone.

Problem with diving is, like has been pointed out before by LGJM, when players dive to avoid contact. I can condone it on occasions, like Rooney did with Almunia against Arsenal, he went down early but his going down was totally justified as contact did come and it was obvious something worse would have happened had he kept on running. N'Gog's tonight, I'm not sure, I need to see the replay again and decide.

From the refs angle that was a clear and blatant penalty. From his position the Birmingham player has slid in, got nowhere near the ball and taken Ngog down. Anyone who blames the ref for giving that is an idiot. So no change in the status of Chris Waddle there.

TBH I'm a bit ambivalent over this penalty decision. The Birmingham player deserved to give away the pen. He made a crappy challenge for the ball in an area where he knew he'd give away a pen if he screwed up. It was only Ngog's stupid dive that saved him from giving away a genuine pen. If Ngog had carried on with his run rather than throwing himself to the ground he'd have been clipped anyway.

It's about time officials are made accountable for their actions, the same as players are. Two games in two days has seen valuable points taken away due to disgusting refereeing.

They're playing us next so that will be three easy points for them and a stay of execution.

What????? Your a hole must kill you the amount of talking it does.

Agreed Johnson was outstanding last night, one of the best attacking performances from full back I can recall. I think Rafa should give serious consideration to playing him further up the field full time, and play Degan (after his suspension) at right back.

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8351352.stmBeware all Danny Dyer wannabes. It's going to be nawtier than you fawt[/url

Given that most supposed "hooligans" in this country whine like babies if European police forces as much as look at them the wrong way, I can't wait to see how they like the SA approach to riot control if it does get out of hand.

You are really sticking your neck on the block with that comment. Have you ever said anything interesting?

If my aunty had balls....

The point being made, is that United had a decision go in their favour. It was aimed at countering the ridiculous argument that United are 'picked on' by refs.

Alots been made of the dive by Ngog, but if he didn't jump out of the way he'd have been clattered by Carsley. That was one dreadful tackle and deserved to give away a penalty. In hindsight, Ngog should've took the challenge, but doing so coud've ended in serious injury.

A penalty was the correct decision - it was the only decision!

Why do you need to look at it again, it's a clear dive. Cly comes in Ngog sees him and dives for a penatly. The simple fact is he isn't jumping out of the way of a tackle or out of the way of Carsley he is simply cheating by diving to gain a penalty.



But he didn't, he saw Carsley coming and he dived to win a penalty when he was never touched. It's dangerous backing this kind of behaviour now because players will do it all the time and will dive to 'avoid' a tackled and a penalty will be given. It was a joke of decision and Ngog should have been booked for diving. There's no way on this earth that it should have been given.



Deary me, clueless. You quoting direct from the Fergie handbook of Football there?

Why did he not jump out the way of Carsley's tackle? why did he have to go over like a diving olympian? the fact is he didn't jump out the way to avoid Carsley's tackle he dived to cheat to win a penalty because he saw the tackle coming. As I said to LGJM it's dangerous to back this kind of cheating because it will happen all the time.

No one was questioning it when Eduardo went down against Celtic, he was hammered for it. At least he got close to the keeper on that occasion, Ngog was nowhere near Carsley. All of sudden SSN are quoting people from the past saying 'If a leg is dangling out a player is entitled to go over it' well no one said Eduardo was entitled to go over the 'keepers arm and the main problem with that quote is you need to be near the player to go over the leg. Ngog was cheating simple as.

Even Benitez admitted it wasn't a penalty, I think that should tell you it wasn't a penalty

Nope. Incorrect.

I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. The tackle from Carsley was dangerous, and stupid.

- Are you saying if Ngog didn't jump over Carsley's leg - or dive - there would've been no contact?
- Are you saying that a challenge, such as that clogger Carsley's is not a danger to the opposing player?
- Was Ngog not in serious danger of injury from that challenge?

You talk about me and LGJM "backing cheating", you are in effect backing challenges that can seriously injure players. Way to go.

Is there any point to you being here?

Nope, I did not say that.



Nope, I did not say that.



Possibly. That depends IMO. There is no guarantee of anything but from watching it if Ngog is caught I doubt he would have had an injury the way you are making it out but as there was no contact we will never know.



Not at all, you couldn't be more wrong. I am not backing Carsley's challenge or sliding in at all. All I am stating is that just because Carsley slides in it doesn't warrant a penalty. Ngog was jumping out of the way of the tackle though, he was diving to win a penalty, to cheat and con the referee. He wasn't avoiding Carsley he saw his chance to cheat his way to a pen and took it.

Benitez admitted it wasn't a pen and also admitted Ngog didn't think it was a pen, enough for me to think it was definately a dive.

But would there have been contact if Ngog did not dive? If the answer is yes, then I fail to see how you cannot give a penalty. Dive, jump, evasive action, whatever. Penalty.



Like I say, I couldn't care less what Benitez or Ngog say. I'm sick of seeing players with limited talent, such as Carsley, flying into challenges, putting the safety of their fellow professionals at risk. I stand by the fact that when Carsley made that challenge there was only going to be one of 2 outcomes - crunch Ngog and miss the ball, or Ngog jumps to avoid the tackle (or dive, win a penalty, whatever) and he misses both.

My view on this whole issue may be extreme because I have seen teams come to Old Trafford for years and try and kick more talented players (i.e. Ronaldo) off the park. Players of note include the aforemention Lee Cly, Wilson Palacios, Michael Brown and Lee Cattermole. It drives me mad.

It was nothing compared to Celtic fans at Falkirk over the weekend which can be viewed on a certain video hosting website.

Disgraceful.

Absolutely shocking what a bunch of wanchors