More football bickering.........

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 11:17 am

Quote ="Catalancs"behave yourself! anyone would think that liverpool were the little club that never gets a decision. 'dodgy' decisions happen almost every weekend.
for dodgy pens look back to liverpool-nal in last year's champions legaue. the chelsea-liverpool game this year...

'"

This isn't the point though. 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Football is a HUGE business and plenty rests on the decisions made. Yesterday the title race was finished by a show of pathetic proportions by Webb, bordering on corruption. Liverpool could have won their first title on the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster had yesterday gone as it should. They won't simply because of Webb. Football should be eradicating these mistakes. Had Webb had the option of asking someone through his ear piece if his decision was correct and told no, the game continues at 2-0 and Spurs comfortable. To be honest, I doubt he would have asked anyway because he would never get the chance to referee at Old Trafford again. Had Clattenburg had the chance to ask whether the goal from Mendes was in, we win 1-0 at OT a couple of years back. The one common denominator in these ridiculously poor decisions ? They are in front of Ferguson at Old Trafford. Corruption for me, as far fetched as it sounds, that is the only conclusion that can be made.

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Catalancs

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Catalancs Posted: April 26 2009 11:22 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"This isn't the point though. 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Football is a HUGE business and plenty rests on the decisions made. Yesterday the title race was finished by a show of pathetic proportions by Webb, bordering on corruption. Liverpool could have won their first title on the 20th anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster had yesterday gone as it should. They won't simply because of Webb. Football should be eradicating these mistakes. Had Webb had the option of asking someone through his ear piece if his decision was correct and told no, the game continues at 2-0 and Spurs comfortable. To be honest, I doubt he would have asked anyway because he would never get the chance to referee at Old Trafford again. Had Clattenburg had the chance to ask whether the goal from Mendes was in, we win 1-0 at OT a couple of years back. The one common denominator in these ridiculously poor decisions ? They are in front of Ferguson at Old Trafford. Corruption for me, as far fetched as it sounds, that is the only conclusion that can be made.'"

a lot of what you say makes perfect sense. all im saying is that it always seems to be pinned on united when other clubs get plenty of 'dodgy' decisions too.
the mendes goal you're on about is the one where roy carroll fished it out of the net (about 2 yards over the line), sheepishly looked at the linesman then carried on and couldn't believe his luck? shocker!!

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WireFanatic III

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WireFanatic III Posted: April 26 2009 11:24 am

Jaysus, I've seen less bitter bluenoses. Embarrassing.

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Billy Banter Posted: April 26 2009 11:25 am

You lost. Shït happens. Get over it.

Conspiracy.

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Catalancs Posted: April 26 2009 11:26 am

typical liverpool fan (wherever you're actually from)
fair play to stirlingshire saint for actually having an intelligent debate

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Jibmeister Posted: April 26 2009 11:27 am

Quote ="fc baldy"icon_lol.gif

Going down going down.'"

Shouldn't you be supporting Hull? Or are you just a typical, gloryhunting idiot?

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Paddy Evra Posted: April 26 2009 11:31 am

Very impressed with the way we came out and changed the game in the second half. Ferdinand had a shocker in the first half and our inability to deal with crosses was scary. Luckily, we managed to prevent them doing anything in the second half.

In the first half Gomes looked as though he was having one of those "$hit keeper's best game of the season" before the ultimate crumble. Very pleased with the result, nice to see Ronaldo stick a finger up at the media who criticise his "doesn't look interested celebrations" after his second goal.

Let's hope the form and momentum from the second half can be continued into Wednesday night and beyond.

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 11:33 am

Quote ="Catalancs"a lot of what you say makes perfect sense. all im saying is that it always seems to be pinned on united when other clubs get plenty of 'dodgy' decisions too.
the mendes goal you're on about is the one where roy carroll fished it out of the net (about 2 yards over the line), sheepishly looked at the linesman then carried on and couldn't believe his luck? shocker!!'"

Its pinned on Utd a lot because it happens with Utd a lot, certainly more than the other sides.

Winning or getting a result against Utd is difficult because they are so good. However this year we've played them 4 times. At Spurs we drew 0-0, in the Final of the League Cup we draw 0-0 and lose on penalties, in the FA Cup we take a 1-0 lead at OT and lose close and then yesterday we are 2-0 up and cruising before that.

Referees are petrified of Ferguson. He tried to condone yesterday by harping back to Redknapp winning the Cup with Portsmouth FFS. This is not the point !!! Winning the title is a big deal and should go to the deserving side. Liverpool could and should be top of the league on points difference right now. They're not because of that yesterday.

IF I felt Spurs would have been given the same decision at the other end, I wouldn't be particularly bothered and it would be considered a genuine error. However I think we all know it wouldn't have been given at the other end, never. That leads to one obvious conclusion, corruption. Decisions are given at OT out of fear of not giving it and being lambasted by Ferguson. Can you imagine seriously how Ferguson would have reacted had we gone 3-0 because that penalty was given to us at the other end ? Hell, Webb would never referee again.

It is disheartening and makes you question the point of watching the game. Spurs haven't won at OT in years, yet we should have won 1-0 a couple of years ago there and should have cruised to a win yesterday. We had won 6 of our last 8 matches and are in good form so I doubt Utd coming back to win without the gift of a goal. Terrible decisions purely given out of fear have cost us 2 wins at Old Trafford in the last couple of years. Is there a point playing the game at Old Trafford ? Tottenham would be as well giving them the 3 points and not making the journey because regardless of how superior you perform and deserve the result, the referee will somehow try and give the contest to Utd in order to not antagonise Ferguson. It is corrupt.

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Billy Banter

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Billy Banter Posted: April 26 2009 11:34 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"snip'"

Do you really think Redknapp gives a monkeys? He'll be busy today having a barby at Sandbanks with the sainted Sandra, and playing on the Wii with Jamie and Louise. My heart bleeds.

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GT Posted: April 26 2009 11:36 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"Its about momentum, anyone with a brain knows that. Utd had none and looked like playing all day and not scoring. Both Redknapp and Ferguson said that the game hinged on Utd scoring in the SH. They didn't looked like doing so until they were given one. Tottenham collapsed and I don't blame them. Te be honest if I was Redknapp I'd have pulled them off the field after he gave that penalty and refused to play. The game is corrupt, I remember Mendes scoring at OT a few years back and not being given despite being miles over the line, now this when 2 nil up. All too coincidental.'"

Quote ="FireWire"Well said. United = Juve

No one believed that could be true either, how wrong they were.'"

If Liverpool don't win the title, it'll be because they weren't good enough. Considering United have supposedly had a major wobble recently and we dropped a few points earlier in the season, Liverpool could easily have capitalised on that. They haven't.

By the way, even if we'd lost yesterday, we'd still be on level points with a game in hand. So we'd still be in the driving seat. But let's ignore that and whinge about that horrible, corrupt FA giving dirty horrible Man U the title because they're their darling favourites.

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Wire_85 Posted: April 26 2009 11:36 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"Its pinned on Utd a lot because it happens with Utd a lot, certainly more than the other sides.

Winning or getting a result against Utd is difficult because they are so good. However this year we've played them 4 times. At Spurs we drew 0-0, in the Final of the League Cup we draw 0-0 and lose on penalties, in the FA Cup we take a 1-0 lead at OT and lose close and then yesterday we are 2-0 up and cruising before that.

Referees are petrified of Ferguson. He tried to condone yesterday by harping back to Redknapp winning the Cup with Portsmouth FFS. This is not the point !!! Winning the title is a big deal and should go to the deserving side. Liverpool could and should be top of the league on points difference right now. They're not because of that yesterday.

IF I felt Spurs would have been given the same decision at the other end, I wouldn't be particularly bothered and it would be considered a genuine error. However I think we all know it wouldn't have been given at the other end, never. That leads to one obvious conclusion, corruption. Decisions are given at OT out of fear of not giving it and being lambasted by Ferguson. Can you imagine seriously how Ferguson would have reacted had we gone 3-0 because that penalty was given to us at the other end ? Hell, Webb would never referee again.

It is disheartening and makes you question the point of watching the game. Spurs haven't won at OT in years, yet we should have won 1-0 a couple of years ago there and should have cruised to a win yesterday. We had won 6 of our last 8 matches and are in good form so I doubt Utd coming back to win without the gift of a goal. Terrible decisions purely given out of fear have cost us 2 wins at Old Trafford in the last couple of years. Is there a point playing the game at Old Trafford ? Tottenham would be as well giving them the 3 points and not making the journey because regardless of how superior you perform and deserve the result, the referee will somehow try and give the contest to Utd in order to not antagonise Ferguson. It is corrupt.'"

No because we dropped stupid points at home

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 11:40 am

LMAO at the Utd fans who are so not interested in the state of decision making in England. I wonder why that is.

Reality I am not interested in Liverpool, they would have just been the beneficiaries of our win there yesterday. Alas Howard Webb made sure the title and 3 points go to OT again and probably made sure Spurs miss out on Europe this season. Nevermind though, hes our best referee ! I bet Ferguson certainly thinks so.

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flipper Posted: April 26 2009 11:42 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"Its pinned on Utd a lot because it happens with Utd a lot, certainly more than the other sides.

Winning or getting a result against Utd is difficult because they are so good. However this year we've played them 4 times. At Spurs we drew 0-0, in the Final of the League Cup we draw 0-0 and lose on penalties, in the FA Cup we take a 1-0 lead at OT and lose close and then yesterday we are 2-0 up and cruising before that.

Referees are petrified of Ferguson. He tried to condone yesterday by harping back to Redknapp winning the Cup with Portsmouth FFS. This is not the point !!! Winning the title is a big deal and should go to the deserving side. Liverpool could and should be top of the league on points difference right now. They're not because of that yesterday.

IF I felt Spurs would have been given the same decision at the other end, I wouldn't be particularly bothered and it would be considered a genuine error. However I think we all know it wouldn't have been given at the other end, never. That leads to one obvious conclusion, corruption. Decisions are given at OT out of fear of not giving it and being lambasted by Ferguson. Can you imagine seriously how Ferguson would have reacted had we gone 3-0 because that penalty was given to us at the other end ? Hell, Webb would never referee again.

It is disheartening and makes you question the point of watching the game. Spurs haven't won at OT in years, yet we should have won 1-0 a couple of years ago there and should have cruised to a win yesterday. We had won 6 of our last 8 matches and are in good form so I doubt Utd coming back to win without the gift of a goal. Terrible decisions purely given out of fear have cost us 2 wins at Old Trafford in the last couple of years. Is there a point playing the game at Old Trafford ? Tottenham would be as well giving them the 3 points and not making the journey because regardless of how superior you perform and deserve the result, the referee will somehow try and give the contest to Utd in order to not antagonise Ferguson. It is corrupt.'"

another blatant C&P

The following is an analysis of all premiership premiership and champions league champions league games played by Manchester United and Liverpool this season. The scouse are sure that united has bought the league by bribing the FA. Lets see if the facts support those accusations.

Manchester United

Games Played : 32

Number of Penalties given to United* : 4 League / 0 Champions League
1. ------ Premier League -------------
2. Ronaldo (pen) 57 - Man Utd 5-2 Tottenham
3. Ronaldo (pen) 23 - Man Utd 1-4 Liverpool
4. Ronaldo (pen) 44 - Man Utd 1-0 Everton
5. Ronaldo (pen) 60 - Man Utd 2-0 Bolton

With the exception of Everton, United won every game they were awarded a penalty against by at least 1 additional goal.

Number of Penalties given against against United* : 3 League / 0 Champions League
1. ------ Premier League -------------
2. Murphy (pen) 18 - Fulham 2-0 United
3. Gerrard (pen) 44 - Man Utd 1-4 Liverpool
4. Geovanni (pen) 82 - Man Utd 4-3 Hull

With the exception of Hull which united won by 1 goal, every penalty given against United resulted in the team losing the match.

No Penalties awarded against against United in the Champions League

Number of United Players Sent Off : 5
1. ------ Premier League -------------
2. Scholes 18 min - Fulham 2-0 United
3. Rooney 89 min - Fulham 2-0 United
4. Vidic 76 min - United 1-4 Liverpool
5. Vidic 90 min - Liverpool 2-1 United
6. Ronaldo 68 min - Man City 0-1 United

With the exception of Man City, United lost every game in which a player was sent off.

Number of Opposing Players Sent Off: 2
1. ------ Premier League -------------
2. Robinson 40 - West Brom 0-5 United
3. Wilkinson 72 - Stoke 0-1 United

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets look at how much Liverpool has suffered at the hands of the Refs.

Dippers

League Games Played : 33

Number of Penalties given to the Liverpool* : 8 (4 in the League / 4 in the Champions League)
1. ------ Premier League -------------
2. Gerrard (pen) 39 vs Villa 5-0
3. Gerrard (pen) 65 vs Villa 5-0
4. Gerrard (pen) 44 vs United 1-4 (A)
5. Alonso (pen) 77 vs newcastle 1-5 (A)
6. ----- Champions League -----------
7. Alonso (pen) 28 vs Chelsea 4-4
8. Gerrard (pen) 28 vs Real Madrid 4-0
9. Gerrard (pen) 90+5 vs Atletico Madrid 1-1
10. Gerrard (pen) 32 vs Mille 1-2 (A)

While not so significant in the league, penalties awarded to liverpool came in very handy in tight games against Mille and Atletico Madrid. It almost gave them the edge over Chelsea as well.

Number of Penalties given against against Liverpool* : 2
1. ------ Premier League -------------
2. Ronaldo (pen) 23 , Man Utd 1-4 Liverpool
3. Mido (pen) 83, Wigan 1-1 Liverpool (A)

Of the two penalties against Liverpool only Mido's cost them points.

Number of Liverpool Players Sent Off : 0

That's right. Zero! Only Lucas has been sent off this season for Liverpool, and that was against Everton in the FA cup. 0 players sent off in the league and the champions League. Now, lets see how many players have been sent off when playing against Liverpool.

Number of Opposing Players Sent Off: 9

1. Hull 1-3 Liverpool ( Sent off Folan)
2. Liverpool 5-0 Vila ( Sent off Friedel )
3. Utd 1-4 Liverpool ( send off Vidic )
4. Liverpool 5-0 Vila ( Sent off Friedel )
5. Liverpool 2-0 Chelsea (sent off Lampard )
6. Arsenal 1-1 Liverpool ( sent off Adebayor )
7. Man City 2-3 Liverpool (sent off Zabelta )
8. Everton 0-2 Liverpool (sent off Cahill)
9. Liverpool 2-1 Utd ( sent off Vidic)

9 Players have been sent off playing against Liverpool. Of these 9, Liverpool won 8 Matches and drew 1 (playing away). Liverpool have played 33 games this season and over a quarter of the time it was against 10 men.

-----------------------------------------------

Footnotes

* - Only penalties that have been scored have been counted. I have no stats on penalties that were awarded but not converted. If you know where to get these stats feel free to add them in this thread.

Sources for all Stats

Champions of England and Europe - news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ts/default.stm

Dippers - news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ts/default.stm

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"Its pinned on Utd a lot because it happens with Utd a lot, certainly more than the other sides.

Winning or getting a result against Utd is difficult because they are so good. However this year we've played them 4 times. At Spurs we drew 0-0, in the Final of the League Cup we draw 0-0 and lose on penalties, in the FA Cup we take a 1-0 lead at OT and lose close and then yesterday we are 2-0 up and cruising before that.

Referees are petrified of Ferguson. He tried to condone yesterday by harping back to Redknapp winning the Cup with Portsmouth FFS. This is not the point !!! Winning the title is a big deal and should go to the deserving side. Liverpool could and should be top of the league on points difference right now. They're not because of that yesterday.

IF I felt Spurs would have been given the same decision at the other end, I wouldn't be particularly bothered and it would be considered a genuine error. However I think we all know it wouldn't have been given at the other end, never. That leads to one obvious conclusion, corruption. Decisions are given at OT out of fear of not giving it and being lambasted by Ferguson. Can you imagine seriously how Ferguson would have reacted had we gone 3-0 because that penalty was given to us at the other end ? Hell, Webb would never referee again.

It is disheartening and makes you question the point of watching the game. Spurs haven't won at OT in years, yet we should have won 1-0 a couple of years ago there and should have cruised to a win yesterday. We had won 6 of our last 8 matches and are in good form so I doubt Utd coming back to win without the gift of a goal. Terrible decisions purely given out of fear have cost us 2 wins at Old Trafford in the last couple of years. Is there a point playing the game at Old Trafford ? Tottenham would be as well giving them the 3 points and not making the journey because regardless of how superior you perform and deserve the result, the referee will somehow try and give the contest to Utd in order to not antagonise Ferguson. It is corrupt.'"

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 11:46 am

Quote ="flipper"snip'"

I'm not a Liverpool fan so I don't care.

Would that penalty have been given at the other end to Tottenham ?

Try and answer honestly without the usual rubbish that comes from Utd speccies.

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GT Posted: April 26 2009 11:51 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"I'm not a Liverpool fan so I don't care.

Would that penalty have been given at the other end to Tottenham ?

Try and answer honestly without the usual rubbish that comes from Utd speccies.'"

So are you telling me that United are the only club to ever get dodgy decisions? Are you saying United never have dodgy decisions given against them? Or does it only start to matter when they go to United?

We had a blatant penalty turned down last weekend which cost us a place in the FA Cup Final and a shot at the clean sweep this season. Where was the showing of outrage from you then?

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flipper Posted: April 26 2009 11:52 am

probably not - that said United have been denied plenty of pens over the last couple of years.

Clearly Liverpool don't get penalties and refs don't send off players playing against liverpool, its all part of the conspiracy and to appease SAF!

- the FACTS don't seem to back up the mentalist's conspiracy theories do they?

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 11:52 am

Quote ="GT"So are you telling me that United are the only club to ever get dodgy decisions? Are you saying United never have dodgy decisions given against them? Or does it only start to matter when they go to United?

We had a blatant penalty turned down last weekend which cost us a place in the FA Cup Final and a shot at the clean sweep this season. Where was the showing of outrage from you then?'"

If you care to read above you will see that I have already stated that 2 wrongs do not make a right. When its happened in the past is not the point, it shouldn't be happening at all.

Now honestly, do you think that penalty would have been given at the other end ?

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 11:55 am

Quote ="flipper"probably not'"

And why not ?

Fear of Ferguson ? That means decisions are made without simply looking at the incident and making the correct call at Old Trafford and that means corruption. That is what is wrong with the game of football.

I am not interested in Liverpool, I am a Tottenham supporter. We have been denied 2 wins at Old Trafford in recent years because of the above and frankly, its a disgrace.

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flipper Posted: April 26 2009 11:58 am

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"And why not ?

Fear of Ferguson ? That means decisions are made without simply looking at the incident and making the correct call at Old Trafford and that means corruption. That is what is wrong with the game of football.

I am not interested in Liverpool, I am a Tottenham supporter. We have been denied 2 wins at Old Trafford in recent years because of the above and frankly, its a disgrace.'"

why was palacios not sent off for a two foot lunge? fear of rednkanpp?

why was Gomes not sent off when he scythed down carrick?

it's a disgrace! it's a anti united conspiracy!

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 12:01 pm

Quote ="flipper"why was palacios not sent off for a two foot lunge? fear of rednkanpp?

why was Gomes not sent off when he scythed down carrick?

it's a disgrace! it's a anti united conspiracy!'"

The Palacios tackle was bad and he would have walked had he connected. He missed the man, thats why he wasn't sent off.

Gomes I have no idea, if the corrupt one decides hes taken the man down, then hes the last man and should have walked. Possibly he knew damn well that it wasn't penalty and that he'd screwed us once, no point doing it twice ?

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 12:06 pm

Quote ="flipper"why was palacios not sent off for a two foot lunge? fear of rednkanpp?

why was Gomes not sent off when he scythed down carrick?

it's a disgrace! it's a anti united conspiracy!'"

Anyhow, you have admitted the penalty would not have been given at the other end.

Why ? Its a simple question but the answer will prove exactly what I am saying. We all know why and the only people who turn their backs to it are expectedly Manchester Utd fans.

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flipper Posted: April 26 2009 12:07 pm

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"The Palacios tackle was bad and he would have walked had he connected. He missed the man, thats why he wasn't sent off.

'"

ah but - Ronaldo (man united) was sent off - when NOT connecting with a lunge against City a couple of years ago -

Man United player OFF - Spurs player SPARED

it's sick, it's vile, it's corrupt from top to bottom, it's a conspiracy, Steve Bennett canes united by sending Ronaldo off, but Webb bends over backwards to give spurs and consequently liverpool and chelseas every opportunity - it's corrupt!

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Stirlingshire Saint Posted: April 26 2009 12:08 pm

Quote ="flipper"ah but - Ronaldo (man united) was sent off - when NOT connecting with a lunge against City a couple of years ago -

Man United player OFF - Spurs player SPARED

it's sick, it's vile, it's corrupt from top to bottom, it's a conspiracy, Steve Bennett canes united by sending Ronaldo off, but Webb bends over backwards to give spurs and consequently liverpool and chelseas every opportunity - it's corrupt!'"

As I have said, 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Please answer my question above.

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GT Posted: April 26 2009 12:10 pm

Quote ="Stirlingshire Saint"If you care to read above you will see that I have already stated that 2 wrongs do not make a right. When its happened in the past is not the point, it shouldn't be happening at all.

Now honestly, do you think that penalty would have been given at the other end ?'"

I didn't say two wrongs make a right. All I'm saying is that your dummy spitting and smacked-dness is aimed purely at United when dodgy decisions go against everyone at some point in time. I bet Spurs have had plenty.

As for if it would've been given at the other end... Who knows? However, I've seen us concede questionable penalties at OT, so you never know.

By the way, for all the whinging, it's not as if it was the most blatant poor decision on first viewing. It was only after seeing a close up replay that it became clear that Gomes had knocked the ball away. Judging from where the referee was stood and the angle he was viewing it from, I'd say you can't really blame him for giving it. And I would wager he'd have thought the same had it been at the other end.

But then again, I tend to look at these things rationally. A little like the dodgy decisions the referee gave at the Willows yesterday. You're not going to see me ranting and raving about them, though, even though we lost.

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