Can't see Johnson getting MVP as the titans didn't make the playoffs, think he's a sure bet for OPOY though.

....not Jim Zorn for the swinging gate play he unleashed on the Giants?

Just because the Titans didn't make the playoffs that is no excuse for Johnson not getting the MVP award.

I 100% agree, but thats just the way that voting seems to go. I think I read that OJ Simpson was the last player to win the MVP when his team didn't make the playoffs - that year he rushed for 2100 yards (ish) in 14 games.

That was in the late 60s or early 70s then. OJ Simpson didn't rush for that amount of yards as Eric Dickerson rushed for 2104 yards to set the record. I think OJ went for just over 2000 yards.

You're spot on sir, 2003 yards in 1973.

Your right, but the fact is without Johnson you'd go from 8-8 to probably 2-3 wins (based on this year). Take out Peyton and they would be as bad as the Rams.

Explain in depth please?

I'm not sure you can say that. They took Peyton out for 2 meaningless games when the division etc was sewn up. Whose to say in other meaningful games they wouldn't have played better?

Besides, other starters were rested and I don't think Peyton would've played better defence for them would he? I think this whole "nothing without Peyton" things has been way overblown.

Please stop coming up with sensible, reasonable replies.

I think Peyton manning is the most important individual player to any team in the NFL. The O-Line is not that good, their receivers are average below Clark and Wayne, and the defense is decent at best. The running game was ranked 32nd in the league.

As good as Johnson is they have Lendale White who could start for alot of teams in the league, he'd be more than capable of taking over and while they'd lose a step they could still function. Secondly while he is excellent they started 0-6. Bring in VY and they end up 8-8 with his lowest yards then being 104 yards. He is excellent but i don't think he is more valuable than Manning.

As for Manning, he brings everything together, he is essentially a coach who plays, he makes adjustements at the line. Without him in the lineup the Colts have been scored on 47-0. I think he is the most valuable player to any team.

It just depends on whether you view the MVP award as being, that Most Valuable Player, or simply the best player.

From your logic then surely Vince Young is the Titans MVP as they were 0-6 without him?

[size=200ELITE AND STILL UNDERRATED EVEN AFTER ALL THESE YEARS



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If the Rams didnt have Jackson, they'd have gone 0-16 IMO

Shane Lechler for MVP?

No.

My point is that as good as Johnson is (and that is brilliant) even with him to begin with they were 0-6. Improve the other facets (bring in VY) and they improve. CJ is the biggest and most valuable weapon on the Titans team but there is absolutely no doubt that Manning is the more valuable player overall. Every aspect of the offence runs through him, and not just as the QB, he makes so many adjustments at the line, he is as good as the offensive co-ordinators.

Did he end up breaking Sammy Baugh's record?

The Raiders are the only team in the NFL that put their punter and kicker on the front of their programmes. How sad is that?

NFL.com has it ranked as the best O-Line in the league.

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I'd like to see how valuable Peyton would look behind the Redskins line where Campbell was sacked/hit nearly 100 times more than Peyton.

Anyone watchin Longhorns/Tide tonight? Should be a cracker. I'm going for Tx if they can shut Ingram down.

Missed out in the end after week 16 & 17 didnt go great.

McCoy injured in Texas' 1st drive! Went over on his shoulder. Bama look nervous as hell though.

If you basing it just on sacks then fne, it's amazing. If you watch the Colts game closely (not saying you haven't) you'll see that Peytons blitz recognition, changes of plays at the line and his quick release is the main reason for that.

Look at the other side of the coin - the rushing attack. 31st in Average rushing yards. This is against teams who will likely play the pass.

Looking at the Chargers - as I know that team better than any other in depth in the league, in terms of Sacks they have the 7th best O-Line in the league. There's not a hope in hell of that. There are 2 good players on the line - McNeil and Dielman. You then have had a back up centre, rookie RG Vasquez and an average RT in Clary (who admittedly upped his game this year). The reason the sacks are quite low is due to one man - Philip Rivers.

PS - I'm still gutted the Chargers didn't draft Oher.

The point you made previously though about the colts being gas wihtout him would surely apply to VY as well though. Anyway, look on ESPN website. Clayton has done a wonderful piece on the Packers playoff chances, he gives them the credit youve been waiting for, he also says there are about 15 elite quarterbacks in the NFL.

The point you made previously though about the colts being gash without him would surely apply to VY as well though. Anyway, look on ESPN website. Clayton has done a wonderful piece on the Packers playoff chances, he gives them the credit youve been waiting for, he also says there are about 15 elite quarterbacks in the NFL.

I remember Adam bringing me a Titans vs. Raiders programme a few years back and Shane Lechler was on the front of it.