They did all that.

The pressure got to them. Ashley cole took a penalty in simliar circumstances in the champions league and stroked it away beautifully, i seem to remember him scoring in the 2004 and 2006 shootouts as well.

The players taken them don't lack ability or practice, just the pressure get's to them sometimes.

Hart had obviously done his homework because he went the right way for a few, it's just they were so well placed he was never going to get to them.

It's the same point again. We could practice for 5 hours and germany practice for 1. They would still beat us on penalties.

Pressure.

I think so.

In the 96 shootout we took 5 perfect penalties. They were all pin point top corner jobs. Enough to win most shootouts. Enough to win tonights.

Problem is, germany took 6 perfect penalties!

If we'd done 9 perfect penalties, they'd have done 10!

I know what you are saying.
And yes it's not an exact science, so it's heavily subjected to human error.
So why do you think we have such an appalling record?
I think it's attitude personally.
Loser lose, winners win.
We are losers.

Yes, but why?

Are Germans not subjected to pressure?
Surely their technique is better?

It's mental.

All the losses have come in such a short space of time as well which doesn't help, if it was 50 years ago no one would care. But pretty much all but one have been in the last 16 years.

It's lack of good technique.
All countries are subject to the same mental pressure.
In my humble opinion.
Although I will concede that our failures heap more pressure on us.
And if that is what you are saying, fair enough.

The reason i don't agree with technique is because:

david beckham (o4)
stuart pearce (90)
ashley cole (12)
lampard (06)
gerrard (06)
young (12)

All players with good technique. All have missed penalties in shootouts for england.

Watch next season, stick young in a man united shirt and watch if he ever takes a penalty. Chances are he'll show good technique and score.

whatever it's down to, we're sh*t at them.

Do you think it was pressure that forced Ashley Cole to shoot on target? Or good goalkeeping from Buffon to read the penalty. Essentially, only two penalty takers missed the target, the difference was that Buffon is a better 'keeper than Hart.

I get what people mean by pressure, and I'd believe in it more if every player missed the target or slipped on their a*se, but if every player hits the target, then it comes down to the goalkeepers to stop them. Hart didn't stop one. Buffon did.

As long as English football takes the attitude that penalties are a lottery, and losing on them is simply down to bad luck - England will continue to lose on them.

Regarding them as a lottery would be an improvement. I think we've been conditioned into believing that when it comes to penalties England will lose. Cole coped well enough with the pressure of taking a penalty in a Champions League final but looked incredibly nervous yesterday.

The much bigger problem that the FA needs to look at is why England arrived at the Euros with so few players of genuine international class.

Someone - name escapes me for the minute - wrote a whole book about why the Dutch will not succeed at penalties until they change their entire attitude to them. Illuminating reading.

Simply writing it off as bad luck or a lottery minimises the issue at hand and provides an easy get-out for serial failings in a valid part of tournament football, glossing over the issue at hand.

My point entirely.
And as others have said it's not just down to the penalty takers, it is more to do with the goalkeeper.
I feel that the goalkeeper should wait and see where the ball is going before guessing.
Others will argue that he has to dive otherwise he doesn't have the time to get there.
Me, I think it doesn't make sense diving out of the way of the ball.
And we seem to have a great knack of doing it.
I remember Shilton getting every single one wrong not so many years ago. He made himself look like a chump.
He could have saved a couple by just standing there.
Of course you have to look as though you are going to dive otherwise it makes it too easy for the penalty takers.

Compare that to Petr Cech in the European Cup final. He went the right way on every one. There had clearly been some homework done.

I could say that Cole knew he wouldn't have been blamed for a miss because he is supported as a Chelsea player. As an England player he will know that the majority of "supporters" would instantly turn on him and revert back to hating him as soon as the pen didn't go in.

So personally I'd say that most England supporters got what they deserved yesterday.

But TBH I don't even think that had anything to do with it. Three of the greatest players in the world today - Messi, Ronaldo and Robben - have all missed massively important penalties recently for their clubs. Those players have skill, technique, and especially the first two, goalscoring ability that most players cannot even dream of matching.

I think that most players will knock on something like 92% of the pens that they take. Awesome penalty specialists (like LeBoueff was at Chelsea) will get 95%. Bad penalty takers (like possibly Mata at Chelsea) will be at 89%.



I think even a fantastic FA would struggle to find a solution for this. But I think the FA are in a similar shape to our squad.

Will ashley young become a hate figure in english football?

He was lready disliked because of his diving, and now, with this penalty miss............

All you had to do was hit the target ashley.

Yeah.

I think one of the problems inherrent in english football is there's no humility.

We think because we created the game, because we have the most watched domestic competition with many of the best foreign players that we have a right to be winning these major tournaments.

The FA just sit back and think, a new manager will get something to click, we'll get a bit of luck or ''it'll be our time''.

But theres just no humility to say, well hang on a second, this nation is way in front of us, this nation is, and that nation is, we need to be doing this to improve ourselves.

When was the last time we produced a midfielder with the technical ability and footballing brain of pirlo?

To produce players, we must first produce coaches. There are 10 times as many UEFA A and B licensed coaches in Spain, France and Germany than there are over here. This has been the case for a long time, but there seems little will to rectify the situation.

We don't need to, we have the best league in the world. We were just unlucky. 2014 will be our year

International football sucks anyway. Club football all the way.

Most England supporters at the game are supporters of sides like Southampton and Accrington Stanley. They are used to dross.

So the FA should leave things as they are. They've done a good job in getting rid of a highly expensive coach and replaced him with a journeyman. That journeyman was managing players of his same level and achieved so much more with them. So that's a big bonus for the FA.

The biggest thing that the FA must be stopped from implementing is forcing English clubs from being handicapped by having to play English players. That will be hurting the clubs with almost zero improvement to the England team. Just let them be poor and save the resources for the club game.

That's a dissapointing attitude.

Maybe england should have appointed 'hose' mourinho.

You'd have your own shrine to england at the end of your bed if that was the case.

Your mum took down your shrine to Jordan, didn't she?

Indeed. Just need more PASSION.