Indeed, only one point (a bonus point as well) and already shipped 163 points in 5 games.

Good. get them relegated. Get them out of competiton with Salford for the new stadium. They are like cuckoos in a nest.

If they go RU will not be able to claim national prominence. They will have no top tier prescence north of Worcester.

Keighley. Enough said.

Really don't need to say any more than that. Ignore the trolls. Geography obviously isn't his strong point. Leicester being further north than Worcester. Also competition is a strong word. At the moment we're hardly stealing fans from them and most of our lot either don't like League or follow Wigan or Warrington.

Still, you might be a bit thick but you've reeled me in. Can't beat a spot of Sunday Fishing. Beats sitting at home I suppose. Fair play to you.

We are indeed in deep trouble.

We're in a relegation battle, there are no 2 ways about it. It's about time somebody from the club came out and made a statement. They're all too good at marketing themselves in the summer, talking about a shiny new stadium and getting the corporates in.

There is no leadership on the field, they all look lost. Already 21 points behind first and a lot of pundits had us to finish between 4th and 6th. Leicester at home next so looking at 6 loses from 6. Then we have the Heineken Cup so it could be a long Winter.

Still, Leeds, Doncaster and Rotherham will mean I don't have to set off at 7am for an away game.

He may not be entirely accurate on his geography but the sentiment makes sense. Years of being derided as a Northern-only game are infuriating (and there tends to be little opportunity to make the case otherwise) grate an awful lot (I get it down here in Southampton, a place where nobody appears to be interested in either form off egg-chasing).

By all means don't rise to the bait, but Keighley's point comes loaded with generations of context.

Oh, I know. But he appeared to be saying it because he wanted the Northern teams to disappear. I'm fully aware that there are those who want a Southern only league. I'm not one of those.

People who give it "League is a rubbish Northern sport" are just as idiotic as the other way around. I have no time for either. I think Catalans have proved there's room for teams outside of the M62 corridor. The less said about the Broncos at this moment in time the better.....

However - people can be quite narrow minded when it comes to the context. If you look outside of the Premiership you have Doncaster, Leeds, Rotherham and Newcastle all in The Championship. I've said all this about 6 months ago I think but the game isn't dying in the way people think it is up here. At amateur level it's still massive in Cheshire, Lancashire and Cumbria especially.

Of course we need Northern teams to flourish in the top flight.

I'm not really rising to any bait. I'm a Union and League man, albeit much more Union. I don't necessarily believe all the conspiracy theories about the RFU wanting a Southern elite though.

Oh I agree, played a bit of amateur Union in Cheshire myself. Rotherham is an odd case- the RFU shot their fox for years to come by blocking them when they could have come up. I was making one of my frequent visits to Rotherham the other weekend and now the team seems unknown to the locals.

Shark J how long do you think Redpath will last at Sale then,weeks, months?

Urmston - Rotherham have been in the Premiership for 2 or 3 seasons I think but I know what you mean. A lot had London Welsh to beat their points record this season but they've already surpassed it. Realistically there's only Newcastle out of the Northern teams who have any chance of going up.....for a long, long time.

Leeds recently sold their Premiership shares to Exeter. It'll be a while before we see them back, their fans have already come to realise their situation and that they're a developing team now who are gonna be mid table.

Interestingly the 3 Yorkshire clubs have all started a new tournament this week. I'm not sure if it's based on league positions or matches against each other, but the highest ranked Yorkshire club gets a trophy at the end of the season. On the Leeds board they don't see the point but I suppose it's no different to International matches that act as 2 separate competitions. One in whatever tournament it is and one as it's a traditional fixture with another trophy up for grabs.

cj - I hope months. We're fast becoming a Football team with our in and out policy. He needs time to gel but then we have the players and they shouldn't have lost 5 games. We had a tough start but London Welsh at home is unacceptable and we should have been able to get something away at Bath. Our performances haven't been as bad as results may suggest. Exeter destroyed us but that's the only real hammering. Saracens at home was us trying to be too smart. We tried playing Saracens at their own game of kicking down the full backs throat every time we got the ball and it didn't work. Saracens are one of the worst teams to watch but they're efficient and know what they have to do to win games. We didn't even attempt to run with the ball that game and Saracens did what they do best - pounce on your errors and just try and get as many penalties in front of the posts as they can. Harlequins away was a fairly decent performance but 2 late errors meant they ran out with a bonus point win and at Bath last week we were dominating the game at only 19-10 down. Again, stupid errors late on and a sin binning cost us.

It's not good enough to make excuses though. We have 15 individuals on the pitch at the moment and it doesn't feel like a team and that's the worst thing. Last year we played the most attractive Rugby in the league, even though we conceded the most points. It felt like we won the thing when we finished 6th but the reality was we still lost far more than we won but took advantage of other teams having a poor season. It didn't matter to the fans though as every player seemed to take pride in the shirt and that's what fans want the most.

Steve Diamond has taken a more hands on approach now and that can only be a good thing. Steve is known at the minute for having a big gob and doing nothing but talking about getting fans into the new stadium. He probably got the position he's in because he bleeds Sale and we all respect him for that. If he can get that same energy and commitment in the players then hopefully we'll stay up.

What ground are Rotherham playing at these days?

Will be interesting to see what the attendances are for the Premiership this weekend – all the home teams are struggling with attracting the numbers. Only Gloucester have attracted a 5 figure crowd at home this year and their two games so far this year are an average 3k down on the same fixtures last season

Teams at home this weekend with their average this year

Sale 7,465
Exeter 5,855
Gloucester 11,300
London Irish 6,576
London Welsh 5,322
Wasps 5,612

Can understand Wasps, Irish and Welsh since they are playing miles away from their traditional homes, but what excuse do Exeter and Gloucester have for their crowds drop?

EDIT - I see Sale were comfortably beaten again tonight. Not going so well there is it?

Clifton Lane, which is tiny- in fact, capacity is apparently 2,500.

Seems like the penny has dropped: www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 00168.html

Seems like the penny has dropped: www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 00168.html

Quote ="Urmston Wire"Seems like the penny has dropped: www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 00168.html'" There have been 26 games so far this year in the Premiership played at home grounds (i.e. not Twickenham or Wembley) which had the same fixture last year. 22 have attracted lower crowds than the same fixtures last year and 4 higher. Every team bar Leicester and Harlequins are averaging less than last year in like for like fixtures And after two gates above 6k, the new team, London Welsh, have had less than 5k in their last two home games at Oxford which is less than Newcastle averaged last year This would suggest it is more than just the north which is struggling

Quote ="Urmston Wire"Seems like the penny has dropped: www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 00168.html'" There have been 26 games so far this year in the Premiership played at home grounds (i.e. not Twickenham or Wembley) which had the same fixture last year. 22 have attracted lower crowds than the same fixtures last year and 4 higher. Every team bar Leicester and Harlequins are averaging less than last year in like for like fixtures And after two gates above 6k, the new team, London Welsh, have had less than 5k in their last two home games at Oxford which is less than Newcastle averaged last year This would suggest it is more than just the north which is struggling

It's pretty incredible isn't it? I bet Welsh will see their crowds tail off- the people of Oxford don't seem interested and anyone else trying to get their by any means bar car will probably get fed up of negotiating the dire public transport connections to the stadium and/or wandering through Blackbird Leys.

It's pretty incredible isn't it? I bet Welsh will see their crowds tail off- the people of Oxford don't seem interested and anyone else trying to get their by any means bar car will probably get fed up of negotiating the dire public transport connections to the stadium and/or wandering through Blackbird Leys.

It's pretty incredible isn't it? I bet Welsh will see their crowds tail off- the people of Oxford don't seem interested and anyone else trying to get their by any means bar car will probably get fed up of negotiating the dire public transport connections to the stadium and/or wandering through Blackbird Leys.

Welsh only had 1 crowd above 6,000 (Leicester game), and the other was actually around 4,500 as announced on BBC website yet Welsh for some reason announced it as something stupid like 6,000. Something funny going on there, as I saw the game today against Saracens, there looked about 2,000 people there at most (including the stand behind the cameras), yet it's been announced at about 4,500. Not a chance in hell.

It's been a long time since we heard anything of our old chums, Manchester. And by the looks of it, things are still not going well for them: www.pitchero.com/clubs/mancheste ... 11558.html Being battered by Alty Kersal. Blimey.

It's been a long time since we heard anything of our old chums, Manchester. And by the looks of it, things are still not going well for them: www.pitchero.com/clubs/mancheste ... 11558.html Being battered by Alty Kersal. Blimey.

London Welsh were averaging about 600 fans a game a couple of years ago.......by the sounds of it, they have increased this by 500%.
The Fulhamcrsaderbroncoquinsbroncos RL are plodding along on a 2,807 average, down 44% over 7 years......given the choice of an increase of 500% or a reduction by 44%, I'd think the board and owners of the cottage burners would be a tad happier........
...but keep up the crowd counting

By what percentage do you think the costs of London Welsh have increased over the same period? I would think 500% would be very conservative. The owners and board of Welsh will no doubt be loving their time in the Premiership from a profile and success perspective but I don’t think the balance sheet would make very pretty reading

As for the crowds themselves, I would be interested on your take on the fall off in attendances in the Premiership overall. This time last year, we were all debating whether the World Cup in NZ was having an impact on the Union crowds but they are falling away dramatically this year without any particular influencer?

How on earth is London Broncos relevant to this conversation in any way?

London Welsh have increased their crowds and no doubt their spend (probably by more)........but they have increased their crowds, which is what was under debate.



It'll be rolled out as "it's the olympics fault" or something like that, but in reality, they'll be scratching their heads wondering why. I would say they have yet to understand their place on the pecking order of club sport........which is below soccers 3rd tier and that they need to sort out their pricing structures. To a certain extent, they need to stop believing their own hype.....just because the RFU can fill twickenham, doesn't mean that Exeter v London Welsh will create the same interest. When I was home last week I noticed that tickets for England v FIJI were on offerfor 40 notes each.....even the internationals will start to struggle.




You were debating the crowds at a union club....I simply pointed out that fans in glass houses should ease off with the stone throwing. I am a die hard Broncos fan, but even I admit that London Welsh have crowds we would kill for.

Very rarely watch Union but do watch the All Blacks. Tuned into the Australia v All Blacks game today and switched it off at HT. Thought it was very boring!

Went to London Irish v Mont de Marsan today with a union-loving friend. One-sided anyway, but amazing that even when there's a match full of tries, it's so inferior to League. And the schlock, cod Irishness of the thing was insane- like being trapped in a semi-open O'Neills in Basingstoke.