My post said that the club game is dwarfed by the international game. So why don't you try answering where the 82,000 inside Twickers for the big events go week in week out?

The biggest news from the final wasn't the result it was the fact that Hartley might miss the Lions tour after being sentoff.

12,500 average across the season, 1,700,000 over the year. 800,000 at Internationals in the same period...

1,700,000 is over twice the amount of 800,000.......Club union is not dwarfed by International Union.........

As I said, you really should stop trying to make the bigger, more popular and better run code look bad.....you come across as very bitter and twisted.

Explain this to me....how can Saracens attract a crowd of 83,000+ to a regular season game they marketed as an "event" and yet the RFL can't attract anywhere near that number to 7 "event games"?
[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17526130[/url

By the way, Premiership soccer is dwarfed by Internationals using your warped logic....35,903 average domestically (13,700,000), 85,000 internationally......(240,000).

No Rugby League club has anything like the private school monopoly of clubs like Saracens.. who interestingly had to build their new ground with a capacity of 10,000 since noone turned up at their weekly fixtures.

You only really served to highlight my point really, which was not (as you suggested) to make Union look bad, but to contemplate this huge gulf between the Aviva Premiership and the international stage.

12,500 for the regular league season, yet they could fill Twickers several times over for a big international. Where the hell do the bandwagoners go? Fascinates me.

On the other hand, the Aviva final was a surprisingly entertaining affair, no doubt helped by the absence of the dour Saracens from the game. They would no doubt have diluted it into a try-less kickathon.

Indeed.. the main headline on Daily Mail rugby union section was about Hartley... didn't even mention the score. Massively unfair to Leicester who would have won anyway once they ground down the Northampton pack.

...and there we have it ladies and gentlemen. The massive chip on the shoulder that is the blight of Rugby League everywhere.


Soccer doesn't have a private school monopoly either, yet it dwarfs all other football codes. Soccer fans don't have a chip on their shoulder regarding either egg chasing code.....and I have never heard a UK based Union fan decry Rugby League, but mention Union to a league fan and they start frothing at the mouth and speaking in tongues before bringing up the vichy government







You said that the Aviva premiership final wasn't mentioned on a radio bulletin you heard, but Magic was....and this led you to believe that International Union dwarfs the club game.......you are wrong.....as I showed with the figures for International and domestic soccer.

I suggest you step away from the shovel now

I don't see how you have proved anything by bringing soccer to the equation..? Soccer is dominant in Britain as it has been since the history of civilisation.. Most clubs can fill their ground plus many more, don't be fooled by the fact that the average is sub-40000. It's limited by capacity..

You asked me how Saracens can get 83,000 fans, I gave you the straight answer. Was that some kind of a trap so you can lambast me as some 'simple minded northerner' and decide you win the argument?

Just ignore him JonB. Every thread he posts in turns into a battle of him trying to get one over on everyone else.

The post I responded to was the one that said International Union dwarfs the club scene.....I have shown that twice as many people attended Aviva Games than Twickenham for Internationals over the same period.....I fail to see how that points to International Union dwarfing the club scene?

As for healthy debate, if you're not up for it, then fine, but advising others should be left to those with something valid to say. I am happy to admit when I am wrong........I don't believe I am wrong in this instance.

I fail to see how your 'statistics' prove anything either way, you compared the overall attendance of hundreds (?) of Aviva games with less than 10 internationals. How is that a fair comparison exactly?

Your inane argument continues to baffle me, especially with you failing to answer my previous post.

Ask the average Yawnion fan in this country who they support and the answer is usually 'England'

Stuart Barnes is a total kn0b....said the punch on Farrell wasnt a sending off as farrell had hold of him and then questioned Farrells temperment after Farrell went for him.The Baa baas hooker chinned him with a lovely left hook and only got a yellow.

Does anyone else have no interest in the Lions? I like Union, watch internationals etc. but it's an event which has just neer grabbed me.

I've never bought into the Lions much either,I watch the other internationals with interest but never grasped the actual purpose of the Lions or Barbarians existence. Yet 30,000 are heading down under to cheer them on. I must be missing something!

Lions test series are one of the very few RU events that I will sit down to watch. To me it's an event like the ashes or ryder cup that grabs the attention of people who otherwise don't watch those sports.

I dont know getting the best players from the home countries together with players from Ireland and touring places like Australia and NZ sounds like a good idea to me. I believe RL used to do something similar with GB

If SL clubs would agree to central contracts and the governing body dictating how many times they could play their best players, you might be able to fit full tours back into the RL calendar.

Not going to happen though.

Not in the NRL unless the centrally contracted players portion of their salaries paid for by the ARU was "off" cap......then you might get some leverage.....

Take the 34 players on show last night as your elite squad....then agree to pay half their salaries centrally in return for them playing a maximum of club 25 games a year including play-offs and being free to tour immediately after the NRL Grand Final for 6 weeks.....

Those clubs such as Melbourne would have half the salaries of Cronk, Slater and Smith to ensure they had decent back up players.

If it were going to happen,then now is the time,because the NRL is cashed up to excess.....if the Aussies leed the way, then maybe the RFL would have to follow.

NZRL could fund their elite squad through ticket sales and apearance revenues....no reason that the RFL couldn't do it as well.....

League isn't "big" enough in the northern hemisphere to persuade commercial entities that its stars are worth using to market their products to anything other than a league audience.

There isn't the money available to the RFL from commercial stuff like that to pay half the salaries of the Elite Training Squad.

On paper, I was quite looking forward to the Lions tour - the Rahs are absolutely brilliant at creating an event. In reality though, after over-saturation coverage on Sky Sports - and the quite on field product - I've lost interest already.

Last night was awful.....in fact, it was worse than awful. The Lions are an opportunity to showcase the game.....but on last nights showing, they were scared of losing and that, in the end, is why they actually lost.

Still, they certainly do know how to pack them in!

I have to say that the tour so far has been a waste of space. It seems as though until the tests start the Aussies are sending out no opposition and the Lions are not playing their test game plan in case it tips the aussies off.

If it carries on like this i can see the RFU going down the test matches only route in Australia.

Why?
They will attract 370000 fans to 9 games over 5 weeks and they are run by the IRB

The paucity of northern hemisphere talent was brought into full focus against the Brumbies. Calling Shane Williams out of international retirement to pull on a Lions jersey was embarrassing.

Why so many warm up games ? Oh yeah,, to fill up the ARU's coffers after the dreadful decisions made in Australian rugby this last 10 years. Fair play to them, they know how to milk an event.