Kenny, Lewis, Daley, Langer, Fittler, Johns, Lamb, Mortimer, Raudonikis, Stuart, Lyons and Sterling....think you'll find I win

And to you and yours, Looking forward to next season, Hope we can pull off a CC final win

Some good points taken onboard and I think we broadly agree. I think we're we probably don't entirely agree is that I think we have gone way ott on fitness and structure at the expense of individualism and skills.
Could it be that improving players skills other than defending is a lot harder and more time consuming than fitness work etc? Do coaches take the "easier option"?

In a nutshell I just want a bit more excitement from the game ideally with fast open competitive rugby. I don't want 42-38 games I love a tight physical game but a tight physical game with the odd moment of genius or superlative skill that you wait to get back to the pub to regale about.
As I've said on previous posts the game historically works in cycles so I'm hopeful the day of the wrestle and incessant 5 drives and a kick won't last forever. I'm not convinced about LM but more than happy to be proven wrong that he can instill/allow a more attractive style into our game

Don’t forget I was told that it was all about super league and the English game. So while you’ve dipped into the NRL and albeit some of the players on the list had minimal time playing here; you’ll need to revise your list.

Ps I love how you end your post with ‘I win’ my 5 year old nephew would do exactly the same.

Don’t forget I was told that it was all about super league and the English game. So while you’ve dipped into the NRL and albeit some of the players on the list had minimal time playing here; you’ll need to revise your list.

Ps I love how you end your post with ‘I win’ my 5 year old nephew would do exactly the same.

First things first
A Number of times this thread has mentioned that the games not as exciting - I've said it numerous times I agree - But that's a different subject.
The issue I have is that simply saying we want the game to be more exciting isn't going to stop the coaches from looking for that winning edge and Winning comes first - Also because the game isn't as exciting it's too simple to equate that to less skill, the Skills may be in different areas than they used to be but it's like saying that players of yesteryear couldn't tackle, they could, the emphasis though just wasn't on them defending as well and as structured as it is now.
The players of today are skilful, they just have to be skilful in ways that fit into the structures being coached.
With regards to going way OTT on fitness that's the issue though, We can't stop teams getting Bigger stronger, faster etc.
I feel the game needs to tweak the rules to assist us in Opening up the game more, reduced Substitutions, shot clock and quicker restarts will go some way to doing this by bringing in more of a fatigue factor leading to more space for "Flair" type players and attack to exploit it.

What I will say though is the interesting point you make about :-
"Could it be that improving players skills other than defending is a lot harder and more time consuming than fitness work etc? Do coaches take the "easier option"? "

I coach in a different sport, a sport that IMO has a better balance between Fitness & the Core Skills of the game (Cricket - With players U20 down to 7/8yr olds).
I've coached for 15 years now and learned a lot in that time and I do think that "The Coaching Manual" tends to teach coaches how to do things By the Book so to speak. That in itself can lead to a stagnant way of doing things and occasionally it needs innovation or outside the box thinking.

I've already Bored the pants off people too much so don't want to go on too much but Many years ago A player of mine was struggling in certain areas Batting. He had gone from being a free flowing/natural type player into someone who just looked so out of place at the crease he looked like a different person. Now he'd gone through a few issues "off the field" and my natural reaction was to talk "technique", Basics, focus on what he was doing wrong and work on those errors in his game and to be honest for a month or so we weren't getting anywhere fast.

I was going to look at some more intensive coaching from better/more qualified coaches than myself when an experienced guy I spoke to said he'd gone through something similar with a player a few years earlier.
His answer - Go into the nets, throw a hundred Balls at him and forget everything, forget technique, forget detail - just hit them, enjoy hitting them
We did this for a couple of sessions and the old player came back, started the season well, remained in the representative team and performed as well as he had ever done previously if not better.
I've used that 2/3 times more with players who seem to be struggling and it's amazing how if you remove all of the technical stuff and free up their minds to "Just Play" it can help.
The paradox is that you can't just do that in isolation - Because the game will expose other weaknesses that you have to work on and invariably those who work the hardest and focus on other teams weaknesses, and work on their own structures etc. invariably win.

So I do think that coaches do often "Take the easy option" although I would word it more along the lines of they get Stuck in their world, focus on the textbook too much and the problems they have they look for the answers within the same structures and working harder on those when that got them into those problems in the first place.

It's very complicated with everyone looking for that 1% winning edge and the answer for each player/team/coach isn't always the same, what works well for "A" may not work as well for "B" and that's what separates the winners from the Losers.

I'm not Lam's biggest fan and I do believe he spent the 2nd half of the year putting things Back in place defensively that had been overlooked early on in the year for the idea of playing a more "Open" type rugby. It was only when we got things defensively better that IMO we could start to play with the ball a bit better.
Ultimately it wasn't good enough and I think it took too much out of the tank catching up on the bad start but it showed to me that you can't just decide to Play more open, you still have to have the structures and systems that sit behind it.

yeah we told you that 3 times but you kept mentioning them so I thought id add some abck to you....none of your list had any playing time here so you might need a rethink also

So stick to your own rules.
Merry Christmas son. Have a good one

schofield, edwards, paul, gregory, goulding, kenny, sterling, lewis, lyons (all played in the uk), Hulme, Martyn, Briers, Anderson (chris), Harris, Fox are all classier and more skillful than anything superleague has seen in the last decade

merry christmas

Damn, was going to fire back with Trent Barrett, but it was over a decade ago

How time flies.

Merry Christmas everybody

Does it have to be in the last decade? Otherwise Dennis Moran would be a shoe in.

Merry Christmas

And i have said all along, keep the structure but also allow some looser plays at the right times.

You seem like a very unambitious person. Every time somebody comes up with an idea or thinks outside of the box you're like, 'no, we cant do that everything must stay the same because thats the way it is'. I bet you have the same neal, at the same time on the same days each week dont you?

That's the 3rd time you've accused me of the same type of thing, I.e. has the same meal every day, doesn't use a sat nav.
Along with numerous insults

You have absolutely no idea who I am, what I am, what I've done in life etc.
It just seems as though you will say things to deflect away from some of the mind boggling stuff you come out with
As I've said before, good luck watching those 80s/90s DVD's
Let me know how you get on coaching/working with those amateur clubs and putting your undoubted and vastly superior knowledge back into the game.
Quick tip though, if you come up against a hard team that you think you cant beat then dont just concede like you wanted Wigan to do against the roosters.
Get some of that Cheetah DNA pumped into em or those inflatable implants to help them.
Get Kelvin skerret in or Andy greg or many of those other wonderful ideas that you and only you with your vastly superior open mind who can think the unthinkable unlike us meer mortals

I'm absolutely sure that watching old DVDs and implementing those moves is something that thousands of modern day coaches haven't thought of and it just needs someone like you to propose it and transform the game, you never know you could be the Jack Gibson of the 20s

Anyway, have a lovely Xmas
Let me get on with debating whether to have my usual Wednesday fish fingers chips and beans or a Xmas dinner tomorrow
Whether to stick to the B roads getting to the in laws rather tha those new fangled Motorway thing mi Bob's and let's hope someone buys me an AtoZ map so I can find them in the first place!

Just about to sit down and watch Deadpool at 9pm on Film4. Wouldn't it be great to have someone like Deadpool in the side?

A simple injection of "secret syrup" within the next decade into a human being and voila..... a player with superhuman strength, injury free at all times?

Pity Stan Lee passed away last year, maybe we could have asked him for technical guidance.

Pfft Stan Lee? We should have had someone with the vision of John Hammond. Creating dinosaurs from DNA trapped inside fossils and mixing them with reptiles. Imagine what we could do with that at Wigan

Can you imagine kids playing SL Top Trumps at Christmas 2035?

Superhuman Strength 100%
Tackles in a game - 300
Tries scored in a game - 52
Speed - 93mph
Quickest try scored - 0.005 seconds.


Can't wait!

And those are just Tony Clubb’s stats

Game, set and match.

His reply does not warrant a reply because it offers no reason why we cant merge some old skool set plays with the modern game. All he offers is negativity and the idea that it cant be done because he says so. He is wrong as Saints proved last year. A bit of old skool play got them a try from the scrum in the GF. Good job Jukes was not the referee otherwise he would of chalked it off for not following his modern day coaching manual.

That try should have been disallowed, not because it was off the cuff but because it broke the laws of the game. Very surprised if a man with as much knowledge as you didn’t already know that though.

I can’t remember that try, whether it’s down to Christmas Day alcohol consumption or not is up in the air. So for my benefit can you jog my memory?

His reply to your reply saying my post doesn't warrant a reply doesn't deserve a reply.
Reason
Any reply to his reply would only be continuing the replies and perpetuating the same debate.
I'll leave everyone to reply with their own replies to decide of it is game set and match or if your replies decide that we need more replies then we could reply some more and it would be kind of a replay which is a reply with the "a" missing.

Anyway

Xmas day Fish fingers was lovely (why change just because its xmas day, its worked for the last 51 weeks)
Santa brought me a new A to Z so I can continue to drive my Model T Ford around the back streets of Wigan

Fages has to retire to the back of the scrum before being involved in play. Not something any issue was made about it at the time, probably because despite all the years he has been involved Stuart Cummings still doesn’t know the rules. They didn’t win sl because of that though they wont it because there structure was far mor solid than anyone else throughout the season. It pains me but you can only give them credit for that. We will be back with a bounce this year and ready for them.

Best set move EVER.

Attacking scrum 25 yards from opposition try line, 20 yards in from right hand touchline

Scrum half passes ball to stand off (David Bolton) and he passes it on to right centre (Eric Ashton) then goes around Ashton to take the return pass.
Opposition chase Bolton, BUT Ashton doesn't give him the ball.
Billy Boston comes flying in from the wing from around 35 yards out, Boston arrives at the perfect time just inside Ashton, receives a supremely timed short ball and scores close to the posts.

That move was used a few times once for Great Britain and Murphy was the scrum (he's no idea what was happening) Eventually opposition teams got wise, but it was brilliant to watch.

Sadly things like that couldn't be used today, there is far too much video analysis.

I remember a great move by Wire from scrum against Wigan in Lancs Cup final at Knowsley Road. Andy Gregory to fullback I think it was Johnson. Also remember the game for the much anticipated Gary Helmsley Smith playing made one run sideways and that was all I remember of his career