For the rest of the season-Yes
For next season and beyone-No

The short term fixes don’t work when will we learn this??? Wiki will do one maybe two seasons and his impact will lessen by the season. Then we’ll be in the situation where both Wiki and Fielden leave and we have to recruit two front line props. It’s hard enough to find one never mind two good props these days.

We need someone the right age of 30 who can do a good four-five years at the club maybe even more. I still think LMS is the player we need and I’d liken his signing to those of Senior, Ellis or Paul Sculthorpe all of who were stand out players for ‘lesser’ clubs who were snatched up at a good age and went onto be either club legends or very, very good players LMS can do that for us and will not only benefit us next season but his impact on the team will grow with every season he’s with us.

Lets build a team that will not only be good enough to challenge next season but will be even stronger, more experience the season after that and so on.

So after 7 pages You agree !

So what your saying is that your original post was an Over reaction???

I think that s what everyone was telling You!

I rate the likes of Hock but think he has too many errors in his game to be given the praise he does. At times his play is down right stupid.

Hansen is good in defense but offers little in attack unless put through an open gap.

Look at the SL homepage, interesting to see the top tackler this season..

Why is that a surprise? You can probably add another 35/40 from Friday as Well!

Second row will take stick if front row don't do their job. Nothing wrong with a tackling second rower if his mate is a more expressive player. Second row can't be expected to do the front row's job. Wigan's back 3 would be fine behind what should be, but regularly isn't, a front row which puts the team on the front foot from the off.

The best back three's have always had a runner, a ball player and a tackler.

It's so simple really.

Lol, just guessing but maybe stats are a bit meaningless when we've played more games than everyone else???

I dind't say they were, I was responding to someone who said that he was surprised O'Loughlin was Top Of the Tackles Made stats!

So What you going to do with your Smart ass lol Now????

Meant to quote the full bit to be honest, it was meant to be a reply to the original point. Although your last sentence makes you look more of a smartass than anyone to be fair.

Your entitled to your opinion, just sick of certain people picking holes in 1 player as if that's the answer to all our problems!
I apologize if that's what you think about my quote but if the original post had been done correctly then maybe I wouldn't have misunderstood it!
The way it reads currently is that your the one having a dig at me????

That was never my intention mate honestly.

Hock can be a match winner but can be a coach killer, i rate him but would not be too sad to see him move away from the club as long as it was for a spell in the NRL.

The frustrating thing is we get the odd snap shot of how skillfull the players can be before we return to the usual dross, usually when we are chasing a game or play against a team that on the night was taylor made for our tactics, tactics we rarely if ever seem to change regardless of there success/failure or opposition.

If it was the odd player underperforming then i think you can point the finger at them, but if it is nearly a full team then you have to look at the coach in my opinion.

Still i fully expect us to beat Salford and everything will be rosey again and we will be the best things since sliced bread for a week, and the coach will get praised by the same people who slam the players for the losses/poor performance, something i always find interesting. Its the players fault when we lose by the coaches when we win/perform.

Re-read the post.

I never said I was surprised Lockers was top tackler. Therefore your assumption lead you to the wrong point.

Apologies! You said it was "Interesting"!

You also said that Hock was Patchy & That's why he's not as good as People rate him!

You then said "You Rate Him"? What is it??

Basically, He's a Wigan Player, End of!

Based on that would you pick him in your 17 Week in week out or Not???

I would have him as one of the 1st 3 names in the 17 EVERY WEEK!

roberts effort against hall for hall's second try was nothing short of disgraceful. donald was poor in his first year at leeds but not throught lack of effort. roborts for now looks like a bloke who has come for the pay day. time will tell im sure

Look back to 2006 when he played alongside Scott Logan. The player we miss is Logan. I am not making excuses for Fielden but he has to do far more since Logan left. Coley isn't a patch on Logan while O'Carroll and Prescott are learning the game and of course Feka is a pure impact prop.

Our pack in 2006 was much better than the one we have now. We have no players like Logan at prop or Fletcher in the 2nd row who are your typical hard nosed and clever Aussie pack members.

I think both Fielden at prop and Hock in the 2nd row suffer because of this. The pair of them have to do far more than they ought.

Dave

Couldn't agree more. Being outshone by a rookie every week.

Re: Hock

I do rate Hock, just not as highly as others. As well as recognising his skill and ability I can also see the stupidity in many of his choices, namely when and when not to offload.

I just think my 'cherry and white' tinted specs aren't as tinted as others...

Stu Fielden. People say he does too much work, he's suffering from not working with another good prop, what about when he drives the ball at the line? A good prop does a few things- Breaks the line and offloads or attracts several defenders then offloads.
Each time a good prop crashes into the line he wares down and tires defenders.

Fielden doesn't seem to do this.
Secondly, and I hate to say it, his aggression doesn't seem to be there.

I honestly thought we found it again in the second half of last season



His performances so far this season have been a lot better than those of 2007 and first half of 2008 but haven't been as good as the second half of 2008 and nowhere near as good as his Bratfut days

Good post and I thoroughly agree

We now have a good distributing hooker (IMO one reason that contributed to his inadequate form) so that should help his form

If we got another house prop to help him out that would take pressure off him (IMO another reason to his slacking form)

We just need to get his agression back and we are there

I was at the game on Friday - first live game in 5 years,

FWIW I'd say Hock could be the best British forward by some distance, if he could cut out the errors. Sadly this seems to have been the case for some time, since he is an immensely powerful runner.

I liked Ainscough - tough little guy, hard to stop. He will let in some tries against kicks due to his lack of height, but a good prospect.

Of the other English players I did like McIlorum (sp?) out of dummy half. TBH he was more impressive than Ridell. Fielden was virtually anonymous, which is a huge shame. I didn't really notice Sam Tomkins either, but he's got time on his side.

Overall I'd have to say that whilst the scoreline blew out, Wigan didn't deserve to be in them game due to an almost ridiculous error count in the first half. When you did get the ball in decent position I thought you looked quite dangerous. I'd have a look at the players themselves before blaming Noble for that - had you not dropped the ball so often it would have been a close game IMO.

the trouble is that we try to beat other teams in the forwards... when basically our forwards are not big enough , we should move the ball around the pitch and utilise our wingers more which would tire out the opposition and give our forwards a slight breather. where are our set plays and running from deep to hit the line at speed, this flat attacking game is utter rubbish then there is supporting the man with the ball... against leeds when we did put on 1 or 2 set moves ie using a dummy runner when hock went over the line produced good results. when we get close to the opposition try line we panic this is where set moves,runners,kicks would be very effective.
all the above should be put in place in training
also come on ... if plan A does not work go to plan B
the only trouble i can see with hock is he does not know when to pass the ball and when to keep hold of it.
leeds did not do anything special on friday except play simple rugby league our errors lost us most of the game

p.s. what does o`loughlin do as captain i never see him talking to the team when things are going wrong.

Just a question, but with Feka, Fielden and Hock on the field in the starting lineup, how is Wigan's pack too small? Not sure how big the sub forwards are.

Also, just to defend Roberts for a second, he was in the classic position of being almost static when the kick was put over, whereas Hall was running onto it.

Brisbane Rhino I agree with your comments and value the opinion of someone who can look at Wigan without the 'cherry and white' tinted specs.

Your comments were spot on for me. Fielden not having any impact on the field is more than evident.

The amount of excuses some Wigan fans come up with to justify poor play is inaccurate to say the least.

The amount of knock ons and lost ball was terrible, this is not the fault of Noble but the players. Wigan posed very little threat to Leeds with fans having high expectation after beating a poor Bradford team.

Fans hype each other up on here praising certain players 'overrating them' to the point were they begin to believe the hype. The there is shock and disgust when the team falls short.

This is not a slate on the team, but a reality check for the fans who have generated a false impression of certain players, the reaction of loss or victory is intensified by the fans hype before each game and about certain players.

Sam Tomkins is extremely hyped up on here, if a fan points this out others feel they are calling Sam, this is false, they are merely stating a realistic understand of were Sam is really up to. A great prospect but not yet a world beater.

The pack in total is big enough, just not good enough to steam roll other packs, no one is scared of the Wigan pack and rightly so.

No enforcer at all. 60min prop is average. Hooker needs game time before he's right, Loose forward who isn't a ball player or a capt. Hock who is good but produces many errors. Joel would benefit from playing as an out and out 13 being allowed to link up with his brother and Tommy in attack, not used as a tackle machine when Lockers or Hansen could be doing that.

Hansen is a good tackler, but lets be honest, no threat to the opposing team. O Carroll isn't bad, but not yet amazing. Prescott can't get into the team and Coley is below the standard we want.

Just being honest. Not putting them down, just calling it as it is. This reflects in results. The backs are sorted now. It the pack were we're failing.

I cannot recall any post claiming Sam is anything other than an exciting prospect with bags of potential, i have never seen him called a World Beater.

I think our hooker is showing signs of quality and improvement each week, never stood a chance in the Leeds game.

I agree with your assessment of Fielden, he has very little punch anymore, for whatever reason our team lacks power and athleticism, Fielden in particullar highlights this.

Lockers has shown his ability ball in hand on many occasions but needs the ball to do so, regards his captaincy skills every coach he has ever played under has chosen him to captain there team, expect for GB, so he must be doing something right.

Hock i think is over hyped and something i have been guilty of in the past, sadly again it is a reflection on the standards of our game in England that people can say he is world class, he is occasionally very very good but i seriously doubt he would be rated in the NRL, somewhere i hope he goes as i feel it is the only way he will improve. All the backrow forwards on display over the weekend offered more than Hock does 80% of the time.

Hansen is an odd one I think we have 1 too many grafters in the team which is why he is criticised a little but he is the one i would keep, and as has been highlighted he may not punch holes in defences but he knows his way to the line and runs good angles etc, that do trouble defences and generate quick play the balls.