I am talking about the props not the pack in general. Knowles and Matautia aren’t props. Passi, you have no idea how he will recover from his horrendous injury, Walmsley is starting to miss games through injury. Eseh is as raw as red meat and Stephens is nowhere near first team rugby. Wingfield, I understood was a loose forward/second row. Lees is fine. If you get one or two injuries to your main props then you could be in the doo dah.

Not by your logic, by your logic because SL is more importnant to us we probably didn't take that game seriously.



I'm not sure what straw man you are running here, basically nobody (Saints fan or otherwise) would dispute that Penrith are the best team in the world. That's why going out there and beating them in a one off game was such a magnificent achievement.

The only person who wants to pretend people think that means Penrith are not the best RL team in the world appears to be you.

It doesn’t stop me playing prop either and playing very well, it still doesn’t make me a prop. I, like them, would be a temporary solution.

Was Jamie Peacock moving from SR to prop also a temporary solution?

13 and prop has been pretty interchangeable for a while. Why people can't see that Knowles and Sione are currently best suited to prop is beyond me but each to their own! Knowles has played prop for England. Sione is a bigger body than Luke Thompson.

Just lazily stating that they "aren't props" is missing the point. Worth watching the roles both play tonight in the middle of the park (albeit with Batchelor missing, and before signing Whitley, Sione is likely to return to the back row this week)

There's no straw man argument. The fact your lot keep recycling quotes about how much Penrith "wanted it" obviously means you guys think you beat them at their best. You didn't and you can't.

Good achievement and a hell of a lot of luck too. Congratulations.

Saints achievement was immense, make no bones about it but they’re living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that was Penrith at their best that they defeated. Even beating an Edwards and Martin (plus Kikau and Korisau from 2022) less Penrith, who treated the game as a trial match, is still something to be immensely proud of because the difference in the quality of the squads and the salary cap spend is huge and it’s even bigger to do it on their own pitch.

Whoever plays Penrith in 2024 will pay the price, I’m sure of that. If it’s Saints again, they’ll face a totally different animal. They’re already making noises about that game Penrith. It’s a game you pray to be involved in but I’d suggest the lions tail has been tweaked.

JP was a far bigger body and a far better player than both of those. I’ll say it again, if you are relying on those two to fill the void for long periods of the season then you will have issues. How many yards do you expect each to make if they play prop? The size of Saints pack is starting to diminish if you are relying on back row forwards.

As FTV has said, Knowles has played prop internationally and Matautia is bigger than most of Wigan's props, definitely Thompson, Ellis and Dupree and makes great post-contact metres. That's not taking into account that we may sign a prop or that Wamsley may remain relatively injury free, who knows. Add Lees to this and if Paasi can come back mid-season and we are not going to be weak in the pack. We've done without Walmsley and Paasi for half of the season and finished joint top of the league.

I can imagine Delaney will put some more size and strength on pre-season too.

Its the backs where we are going to struggle as Percival and Hurrell pick up injuries more regularly now and Makinson is injured more too and has lost a a yard of pace. We are desperate for a strike centre and another decent winger IMO

I think we've got to be realistic that if we played on a weekly basis in the NRL we would be far down the table, as yourselves would be (under the current set ups). Of course we would both enjoy a huge inrease in TV revenue along with a massive increase in salary caps to match the teams down under. But as we are it's unrealistic to assume we are anything otherwise. There's always that chance of a one off upset preseason but play that WCC mid-season and we'd likely get trounced every time (especially over there).

Faz has played prop but that doesn’t make him one. BTW, Mata’utia isn’t bigger than most of Wigan’s props, and certainly not bigger than Ellis or Dupree. Thompson maybe but it is that long since I saw him I’m not sure. I am sure that if all your pack is fit you will be really competitive but you should not be relying on the two mentioned to bolster your front row. Saints need to spend but whether they have they got the funds? One thing is for sure, unless they make Welsby their highest paid player he won’t be around for long. The biggest problem you are going to have is recruiting federation trained players to replace the likes of Makinson, Lomax etc. although you do have some promising juniors who may fill the void.

Kaide Ellis is 6' 3" and 17 and a half stone, Tyler Dupree 6' 2" and just shy of 17 stone. Mata'utia just 6' and 15 and a half stone.

Clearly much bigger than Ellis and Dupree*

*(But only on RedVee)

Still, at least he's bigger than Luke Thomson who is fractionally taller and over half a stone heavier*

*(Using RedVee units of measurement again of course)

Tony Clubb played centre for England, doesn't mean he is one. Same with Blake Austin on the wing.

Matautia has the makings of a good prop to be fair but he’s a loose cannon, as he showed again tonight.

His discipline is terrible. The bigger the game the worse he is. Lucky to avoid a card in the GF against Catalans when he struck Maloney. Definitely lucky tonight to not be carded.

Mata'utia last night just makes the Shorrocks sending off even more ludicrous. There was a suggestion that it was because it was a semi final and being "reffed differently". It reminds me of a certain famous Orwell quote: All semi finals are equal but some semi finals are more equal than others.

Mata'utia is obviously going to get a ban for that punch, which will come into force at the beginning of next season.
Do you think St Helens will use pre-season friendlies to work some of the ban off? Surely "Saints" would NEVER do anything like that?

I thought Thompson was superb today. Especially after the HIA took the ball in all day and defended superbly. Good signs from him considering he was 'finished'

Agreed although, as expected, those on t'other side of Billing hill have a different view

As I said on the game thread, that simpleton giraffe bloke said he got bitched. No doubt he will come back on here trying to suck up to you all like he normally does.

Thompson was outstanding today. End of.

I’m gutted he didn’t come back to saints

Consummate professional, getting better each game,hell of a player

I thought he was good in defence and put his hand up for a lot of carries, but he didn’t really get the better of any collisions that I can remember

Saints fans logic. He didn’t make many post contact meters. Had a rubbish game. Matty lees never makes post contact meters. Oh lees was immense

It’s a fair part of a props job. You can have a good game without winning the collision and making loads of ground and Thomson did have a good game but he doesn’t seem as effective as he once was. People like Lees because he’s a huge part of setting our tempo. He doesn’t make a lot of post contact metres but he does regularly dominate in the tackle.

Most people aren’t saying lees was immense on Friday though, they’re saying the likes of Walmsley, Mata’utia and Knowles were

He made over 100 metres.

I agree with this and he hasn’t really bossed many collisions all year, although he does have a very quick PTB.

In the second half he returned a drop out and skittled 3 defenders. People around me mentioned that would do him good.