Obviously Roberts has not scored as many tries as Ainscough and you want your wingers to be scoring tries. Ainscough though does need to be gradually brought into the team as is being done (I just think that this should have started last season rather than this one), Roberts is not a youngster who needs easing in so if someone is to play the majority of games it should be him.

Whilst he is not topping the try scoring charts he is doing no worse in terms of tries to games than Calderwood and Colbon did before him and he is as many have said at a disadvantage chances wise as he plays on the right. He may or may not have scored the number of tries that Ainscough and Richards have if he played on the left we will never know whether he would. However we have predominately attacked down the left in the last few seasons due to the presence of Hock and so the left side benefitted. With the likely loss of Hock from our nal we should now see a more varied distribution in our point of attack. This will aid Roberts and Gleeson should it occur.

Whilst he has not scored many tries Roberts has made a good number of breaks so is capable of finding gaps. I fully expect that once we start to attack on the right as well as the left that Roberts will show why we signed him. Yes he has had two thirds of a season but while our play is skewed to the left he isn't seeing an even share of the chances. Let him have a fair crack of the whip before you start to beat him with it.

I think Amos is worse than Calderwood. His positioning is woeful. Riddell is also a seemingly bad buy from downunder. His belly is embarassing.

The main ray of hope last night was Sam Tompkins and MM.

How dare you talk sense!

People seem to come on here for an argument not discussion, so you're point was always going to be missoncruded for that very reason.

New word. I like it.

Well you said Fox isn't the fastest and clearly don't understand how getting caught by the fastest man in SLi sfar less of an issue than if say Nick Fozzard would have caught him, but hey don't let that get in the way of you slagging someone off.

I fully expect you to duck the question, but here goes again - Who do you think is the fastest player in SL.



Hmm, perhaps when Roberts picked up the loose ball and Fox caught him 60m later.

On loan but Kevin Penny. That ok keyboard warrior?

So you would have been okay with Penny catching Roberts?



You love to bang that drum dont you

Well you clearly are.

You asked me a question which I answered.

Explain how.

Breath waste of.

You're missing probably the most significant factor (though one that isn't going to be a factor for at least the next two years).

Anyone else notice how much more evenly balanced our attack was on Sunday?

What are you two on about

There's only 3 Charlie Seeling's!

I do not think Ainscough is being gradually brought into the team. I think it's quite possible he will not feature again this season.



The excuse he does not get the ball enough is IMO largely something people have latched onto as just that, an excuse. The reason I say this is when he does get the ball, he does not make much use of it so it is not just that he gets less ball.



If it was about a fair crack of the whip Ainscough would have kept his place in the side. As to Roberts finding gaps Ainscough makes more clean breaks and tackle busts than Roberts on average. As I said above the problem with Roberts is when he does make a break nothing much comes of it 9 times out of 10. That is what happened v Salford for example when put away two or three times by Gleeson he got chased down, as he was v Hkr.

If Roberts was in some sort of outstanding form and showing the pace we were led to believe he had there would be far less debate about it but he isn't. Why he is generating so much sympathy for being distinctly average I do know.

People have seen what Ainscough can do, are seeing what Roberts is playing like and come to the conclusion they would like to see Ainscough get another run. Some say "its because he's an Aussie" or "people would not have a problem if it were not Ainscough he was keeping out" which is just not it at all.

I have no doubt if Colbon was still here he would get a game before Ainscough because our coach selects his sides one way, if an experienced player is fit - he plays.

Dave

DaveO

All who watch our games will notice that we launch attacks predominantly on the left flank. This is due to the attacking prowess of Hock as he provides our best option of going forward. As a result the centre-wing combination on the left sees much more ball than that on the right. Given much more opportunity to run at players with the ball any player has a greater chance of breaking tackles or breaking through the line so is likely to fare better in these stats. If player A does one or the other 50% of the time when having the ball and player B does so 20% of the time but B gets the ball three times more often than A then B will have made more tackle busts and line breaks but is not a more effective player. These are not definitive figures but are just used to illustrate that stats can be misleading.

Roberts has only played on the right wing (apart from 2 at FB), Ainscough has only played on the left wing. They play in a team that almost always attacks down the left and very rarely on the right so their stats will be affected by this.

Many people criticise Roberts for not being able to fly for the full length of the pitch and being caught by other wingers. Not every winger can go the full length it's part of what makes the ones who can so revered. I can only remember one of Ainscough's tries being long range so he probably can't do it either.

People have criticised Roberts for passing to a supporting player so that they could score. Earlier in the season Ainscough was in the same sort of position and sent Carmont in (granted his over the head pass was more spectacular) and everyone raves about what a fantastic try it was.

Ainscough is being eased into the team as his appearances are being limited to avoid overexposure of him. It just happens that most of his appearances came in a block due to poor form from the likes of Mathers and Pryce meaning Pat was at FB leaving Ainscough as best wing option at the time and that he was withdrawn from the team at a poorly chosen point.

Don't get me wrong I am do not anti-Ainscough and am not overly impressed with what we have seen from Roberts so far. However I do think he will be able to show more what he is capable of once we start to distribute our attacks more evenly and just think that some people are being overly harsh on him in certain situations.

We looked like on Sunday the players realised theres more to the game then passing it out to Hock and hoping for the best!

We took the ball down both flanks for a change and looked just as dangerous on the right as we did on the left.

It was about time and i only hope Gleeson sees as much ball this weekend as Bailey got last!

This is part of the point I was trying to make, with Hock we almost always went left and without him as an option we have for one game at least evened it up. As a result both flanks look dangerous. If this continues then we will be able to accurately appraise how Roberts can do and if he can be a success. If he gets a more equal number of chances and doesn't produce then criticism will be validated but if with a better share of the chances he starts to get improved performances and tries then it will show that those who are defending him were right. As you say hope this continues so that we get a truer idea of Roberts' capabilities.

Roberts has been far from perfect but he's showed some nice flashes and thats pobably more then Richards did in his first season so i'm prepared to give him time.

If Richards, Roberts or Ainscough had played all 18 games on that left wing they'd be miles clear at the top of the try scoring charts on about 25 trys imo because of the work that comes from Carmont and Hock.

We now need to mix our play up and that seemed to start on Sunday.

And even if we accept this line of argument he does not, as I said make use of the opportunities he does get presented with.



Roberts was billed as a flying winger so the fact he can't go the length of the pitch means the criticism is warranted. He is not the Jason Robinson style of winger nor the "Volcano" style. [uHe is in fact Caldwwood minus the pace.[/u

Also no one has suggested Ainscough can go the length of the field but instead that he[i is[/i the Jason Robinson type. The comparison is not who can go the length of the pitch (neither can) but who is most effective out of the two.



The reason he got criticised was because he had to pass because he was being caught, which I think you know.



Ainscough has only ever featured in the team when injuries or suspensions have occurred. This is a fact. Whenever we have had a full compliment of players in the backs he has not featured. This is also a fact. In the light of this to argue he is being eased into the team is IMO ridiculous. As I said I think there is every chance he will not get another game this season (knowing my luck he will play this week!) and I do not think that is an unreasonable thing to say.



If you are no overly impressed with him why make the excuses?

At the end of the day it is a coaching issue. We have today signed Sam up until 2014 which is great and despite ruling the roost over the third placed team it is not beyond the realms of possibility he will be 18th man when we are back to full strength despite several other players form being poor who will walk into the side in positions where if they were dropped would allow Sam in. It has already happened this season and people are surely convinced he is able to handle the games. It is the same with Ainscough. Roberts form isn't good enough to be picked week on week regardless IMO but that is what is happening.

Dave

That implies that there are "styles of winger" and that you buy one of the brands, one has speed and nothing else, one has power and the other has the ability to run sideways...lots.

Bottom line is that's not strictly true, Amos is a speedy winger, he just got caught by a faster speedy winger.



100% spot on, it's something that worries me a little. We have seen rotation in the second row, with Hansen and Joel missing out on merit. However we haven't seen this in the wings. Maybe because Nobby wanted Glees and Amos to bond, other than that I can't think of a reason.

Well I find myself in agreement with Dave O here.


In these days of the CC we are forced to ask what Roberts brings to the party compared to what he is paid.


I thought he was a "flyer". He obviously isn't. What he is, is a solid winger with good RL ability. Nothing special, but not woeful.

The question is, is that good enough to justify his salary?

We cannot answer that question.

I am not overly impressed with what Roberts has done so far because we were led to believe by IL and others that he was going to be a prolific scorer and very fast. They promoted him as Famous Amos and raised fans expectations of him. However I am defending him as there are circumstances surrounding our attacking style and reliance on the left side that in my opinion have contributed to his record so far. He is also being compared directly to players who are playing on the opposite wing where there are more attacking opportunities. He has shown glimpses that suggest he could achieve much more and will live up to expectations when our attacks are more evenly distributed. It was evident on Sunday that he can be more of a threat than he has been when our attacks are evenly distributed.

A lot of people were being similarly derisive of Pat Richards during his first year and I defended him throughout that season as there were mitigating circumstances with him too (he was played out of position). I was right then and believe I will be right again. Some people will agree with me and some will think me a deluded fool. All I am suggesting is that there are reasons other than his own ability why he has not reached expectations so far and I think people should wait to see what he can do should we continue to distribute our attacks evenly for the remainder of the season (as we did on Sunday).

I am a not a fan of Roberts, for one main reason.He just doesn't look interested and just seems to be going through the motions. I know that somewhere underneath is probably a decent player, but every player has to work hard and put maximum effort in. IMO he doesn't and that what annoys me.

In comparison Phelps puts 100% effort in, is probably not as good as Roberts but at least as a member of the paying public i am satisfied that he has given his all. I am not convinced Roberts is here because he wants to be, and thats why i don't like him.