Just want to get it finalised now, dont want this dragging on until pre-season.

If it's being dragged out because Wigan are fighting it every inch of the way, I'd be happy for it to drag on until Doomsday.

I am totally fed up with seeing our best talent going without anyone at least trying to resist.

Even if it meant the club trying to get him a gig in the NRL, it would be worth just to keep him in the sport and to see him fulfill his potential and become a top quality rugby player rather than an arrogant, overpaid, overweight, beer-swilling cardboard tank.

No need to bring Garry Schofield into this...

It may be stating the obvious, but speculation just breeds bad feeling.
I would not blame Joel for going to RU for the money, I would hate to see him go, but good luck to the lad.
He has given a lot to our club in his career so far and I have nothing but admiration for the commitment and desire he has shown in developing into the fine player that he is.
I would love him to announce that his heart is here in Wigan and RU can beggar off but at that age, would I? would you? if I am honest, the answer is no. I would want to make as much money as quickly as possible before my career ended.

Either way, Joel is one of us, will always be, one of us. So stop giving the lad a hard time and show that as supporters, we are here to support our players in the tough decisions and respect their choices whatever they may be.

The business end of things can be sorted behind closed doors and neither Joel or us need to worry about the compensation or contract buy out if it should happen. I am sure that Mr. Ian Lenegan will get the best deal available if required to do so, but I just want to see Joel treated well, by the club, by the press but most of all, by us.

CD

It is stating the obvious to say that anyone would want to go where there's more money. But I personally would be a lot more impressed if Joel went to the NRL - where there is plenty more money than here (so that's that base covered) and where there is also plenty more of a challenge, 1000% more than there is in RU.

At present he's not just going for the big money, it looks like he's going for the easy money, which is less endearing to a top performer in a red-blooded combat sport like ours.

There is also a bigger picture issue.

If Joel goes, he will only be one of several high profile RL players who at the very first sign of a bigger payday have suddenly wanted to tear up their existing contracts and leave the sport. It isn't an exodus, but it doesn't need to be in order to weaken us significantly. If the rumours I hear are true, and Union, once they've got Joel, then target Sam, and after that Ben Jones-Bishop, and then who next maybe? - George Williams, Ryan Hampshire (who'll just be about the right age), we'll be losing irreplacable talent on a regular basis - and will be seen increasingly as RU's feeder sport. Spin in however you wish, but I can't thank these players for that.

I don't wish to see them insulted in the street, barred from their former clubs, etc, but while you can truthfully say that these guys have a right to choose their own future, find financial security etc, it can also truthfully be said that - collectively - they are letting an awful lot of people down because they are badly damaging British RL.

Let's not admit one truth and then hide from the other.

menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... -cash-call

menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... -cash-call

Can Lenegan really not put it up to high transfer fee and hope that whether Saracens buy him or not it will increase the value of Rugby League players? Or does it not work like that because RFL and RFU are seperate bodies? If we say £3million for Joel instead of £250,000 would it not put off Union clubs in future? We need to be ambitious I think. Something needs to be done about players sponsoring products too, it shouldn't be on the cap, so what if the lesser players and clubs don't get sponsorship which is as lucrative, it would make both the players and clubs to aim higher in league instead off having to bugger off to Union.

Like you, I would love to think that the impending departure of Joel (who I would be asking £400,000 for regardless of whether it's fair or not - no way would Saracens get him on the cheap regardless of Andy Clarke's glib promises), would sharpen the thinking at the RFL regarding cap discounts on home-grown talent, on self-negoatiated sponsorship deals and on the reinstatement of a central fund designed to top up the wages of our marquee players, but this didn't happen with Eastmond.

It may do next year when Sam is ready to go as well, but what a pity it wil have taken the sacrifice of so much talent in order to make stupid Yaaarkshire thickheads wake up and smell the coffee.

£400k seems fair to me. Wigan have spent years developing Joel's 'talent' and should be properly reimbursed.
I don't blame him for going. It's not as though he will only be getting a wage increase of £20,000 but it will be in the hundreds of thousands.
However, I do hope that he fails and then RU clubs will have second thoughts about raiding rugby league.
We need to put England on the international map to give our game a much needed boost. If we lose our best players then we may as well not try to compete in the 4 nations. Watching the under 20s I have seen a plethora of talent coming through at quite a few clubs but it would be heartbreaking to lose them to RU. It isn't even good to watch.

He will get paid £140,000 to £200,000 at saracens if you believe that hes going to get £400k a year then you must be daft saracens signed South African captain for less than £200,000 a year there not a rugby union fan in the country believes he will get more than £170k off sarries only way he will get a couple hundred grand more than his 80k at wigan is if he plays for england. Rugby Union people laugh at some of the things we write about how much joel will be paid and all this seting him up for life crap.

Rumour is that the £400k is over 3 years, rather than £400k a year. With the added financial incentives of Yawnion.

Sorry to say it, but I told you so... there will be no massive payout for Joel.

IL will do well to get £250k.

I think you're right.

The really annoying thing about all this is that if only RL could sort out its management and administration and make a better job of running and marketing the game the bigger clubs could afford to pay the sort of wages that would make it a lot more difficult for RU clubs to entice our players to take the risk of moving to a different sport and a different sporting culture. But when even the most intelligent and enlightened of club owners, our own Mr Lenegan, persists in sticking his head in the sand on the SC issue and even gives interviews in which he says he's not worried about RU then nothing is going to change.

That depends on what you call a massive payout I suppose. I dont want Joel to go but anything over £200K cant be sniffed at. Saracens would largely be buying potential. As a centre the jury is still out whilst in the 2nd row he isnt the best in SL......yet. So when you consider what other players have gone for, if he has to go that might not be a bad deal. There is not point demanding a stupid fee just so that the deal doesnt happen, we all know sport is different to pretty much any other business when it comes to employees.

You don't have to demand a stupid fee in order to prevent the deal happening. You just have to demand a reasonable fee to reflect the years of development you've put into developing the player, and as compensation not only for the loss of his talent but for the overall negative impact on the club and fans that his departure will inevitably have (in this case it's put the entire fanbase under a massive downer).

If Saracens regard that as stupidity and walk away, then that's their problem.

To be honest, I don't get all this "we need to consider what other players have gone for" and "Saracens are only buying potential". My answer to that is tough schizer! I'm interested in our loss not their risk. If they want a sure thing, they should buy a world class RU player, or better still, break the habit of a lifetime and actually develop one of their own.

We also need to think of the precedent. The days of RU paying pig money for knackered veterans like Farrell are over. They now are targetting guys like Eastmond and the Tomkins brothers - exciting young stars with big careers ahead of them. We already labour under extreme dfficulty hanging on to these guys. Why should we score another own-goal by making it even easier for people like Andy Clarke to market them elsewhere by sticking reasonable price-tags on them?

I hear all the stuff about market forces, etc, but we really need to stick out for a big payday on Joel. We have to put a marker down to let these parasites know they are not going to benefit from out hard work without paying through the nose for it. If it's true - and I keep hearing people in positions of power saying it is - that many Union clubs are already mortgaged to the hilt, that may well concentrate a few minds about whether it's worthwhile keeping raiding RL. Ultimately we want them to make the decision that it costs a lot less to slam the door in Andy Clarke's face.

Well said. Wigan should not put a low fee on Joel to be nice to Joel either because he can earn more in Union. That is not being vindictive but putting a true value on the player for the reasons you state:

"...to reflect the years of development you've put into developing the player, and as compensation not only for the loss of his talent but for the overall negative impact on the club and fans that his departure will inevitably have... Why should we score another own-goal by making it even easier for people like Andy Clarke to market them elsewhere by sticking reasonable price-tags on them?....We have to put a marker down to let these parasites know they are not going to benefit from out hard work without paying through the nose for it..."

That should mean a high fee not a reasonable one and if they don't want to pay it, no deal.

The problem with charging a high transfer fee to the club is that you are putting the player out by preventing him from earning a much higher wage. It's not like football where there is silly money flying about. If Wigan turned round and said we want £3m for Joel which they obviously wouldnt receive, Joel misses out on the extra wages. You then end up with a disgruntled player.

Some power has to be handed back to the RL clubs so that they are able to fight off advances from union. At the minute, unless the player says NO, then the RL club has to roll over and wave goodbye.

So what? We are constantly told this is a job to the players not a vocation to justify letting them go for higher wages and if so they have to accept the club must view any transfer requests in the same business context. It's simply business and if as Cruncher said setting a high fee that reflects the players value to Wigan sets precedent then one disgruntled player is a price worth paying if that means when Andy Clarke and Co try and manufacture another move out of nothing the players know from the start it is not a forgone conclusion they will be allowed to leave for peanuts. They won't have the expectation they will be allowed to do so without what the club considers adequate compensation.

And no one suggested stupid fees such as £3m either but a fee that sets a fair value on all the things Cruncher mentioned. If the club can justify the fee it sets (which they could not if they asked for £3m) then the player will be able to see why the club values them as they do and he should blame the Union club for not wanting to pay the fee if they walk away, not Wigan for setting it.



No they don't. Are you seriously suggesting if Saracens offered say £50K and no more Wigan would wave goodbye? I think not.

I agree that to ask £3 million would be ridiculous. But I don't consider £400,000 ridiculous, given that fees like that have been paid for RL stars in the past. And if someone ends up disgruntled then I'm sorry but maybe that's the result of a player's agent making his player unrealistic promises.

That said, I don't like these situations when players are frozen out of the game, and by tradition, Wigan don't. They always took the line that if a player wants to go he should be allowed to go. But things are different now. Wigan have invested a lot of time and money in Joel. Not only that, his defection would be yet another blow to the British game overall. These things cannot be considered lightly any longer - we stand to lose too much.

If Joel has decided that he wants to go, and it's a decision based on providing the best future he can for himself and his family, then it's perfectly understandable. But likewise, Wigan have to think about their future and their finances. It's all about hard business these days. There should be no room for sentiment.

I agree 100%. As I said it is often said it is a job to players, well it's a business to Wigan. Letting any player leave for a small amount of money in transfer fees is not good business for Wigan or the game as a whole. Players need to understand that.

JT plays is a first team player for one of the best sides in the game and is an England International. If RU want him then even ignoring things like the development effort Wigan put in and other intangible considerations such as the fans disappointment (which may affect crowds etc) then £400K is about right.

First of all

Someone did suggest £3m.

What I'm saying is that if a player has a chance to triple/quadruple whatever their current wage is and the club blocks it by setting a fee that is too expensive then you are going to have a very unhappy player. It's not football where they are all set up for life anyway, this is literally life changing money to a RL player.

If a club comes in with a reasonable offer of a transfer fee (which around 250k would be imo) and the player decides they want to go, then there is little the RL club can do. Im not sure why you add that bit about 50k at the end because I never said anything like that?

£3million was just a random high number I thought I would put out there, I know that is impossible but what I mean is that Rugby League clubs should be aiming for high figures when it comes to compensation, it is a business and if some of the players end up being valued higher then surely there has to be changes to the cap system. However it's The RFL so probably not.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a reasonable fee. Considering Wigan's time, effort and investment, the damage to the club, the ongoing damage to the game, and then the remainder of Joel's contract which will need to be bought out in addition to everything lese, I still think that £400K would be a good start-point.

But I honestly don't care about this unhappy player lark. If we're ever to finally draw a line in the sand on this matter, there's going to be at least one unhappy player - it may as well be Joel, given that he's the first loss I think we will really, really feel.

Sorry didn't see that but I certainly was not thinking along those terms. That would obviously be a nonsense figure. Setting a proper fee however (and the £400K suggestion seems reasonable to me) is not.



I am sorry but that is irrelevant. If an agent goes to a player and says I can get you triple wages by getting you an RU gig without first seeing if the transfer is feasible the player has no right to feel hard done to by his club if they set a reasonable fee on his move if the RU side won't pay it. The agent has offered something he could not deliver.



I mentioned £50K because you said "At the minute, unless the player says NO, then the RL club has to roll over and wave goodbye." and if that is the case then Union can offer £50K because you seem to think because the player has been offered a high wage that is the end of it. Quite frankly if it is inevitable why would the union side pay [ianything[/i?

So let me ask you. If the Union club offered a fee unacceptable to Wigan (however much that might be) what should Wigan do?

I would have thought 400k+ was perfectly reasonable, especially only 1 year in to a 5 year deal. But I just couldnt see Wigan turning down 250k.

The problem with a player being "unhappy" in this situation is they could become uninterested and their game gets affected, to a point where there was no point keeping them anyway, with the added insult that the club isnt financially rewarded.

In my honest opinion, and it has been said time and time again for a fair few years now, clubs should be rewarded for promoting youngsters in to their first team by implementing a system whereby only a certain % of their wages count towards the salary cap.