Why are you attaching so much significance to Wane talking up the team's chances during the off-season?

Would you expect any coach to be downbeat when asked what his hopes are for the coming season? How would you have felt if Wane had said that he felt we were only good enough for mid-table? Even if he genuinely believed that, would you have expected him to say it?

It wasnt the expectations it was what he was working on and the changes he is making to the team, training and game play.

I would say it's ALL about the expectation with some Wigan fans. It clouds their judgement in a big way, as this thread has exemplified.

and why is that wrong?

I didnt expect wigan to destroy huddersfield, history told me that wouldnt happen, however i did expect to see a wigan team compete for the 80 mins.

the score flattered wigan, huddersfield were way better than us in so many ways, the team loked under prepared and uninterested.

case in point, we are 4 points down with 10 or so to go, we get a scrum on the oposition 25, and walk to it, eventaully sam started to run to it but still had to wait to get another 5 players with him to have the clock stopped. At that moment i knew we had lost, there was no enthusiasm in the ream, huddersfield knew they had the beating of us.

I dont expect to beat every team, but i do expect wigan to compete with every team, the fact that we only lost by 4 was more is irrelevant, every performance this year has been lethargic. I watched the friendly against huddersfield and it showed 2 things our lack of last tackle options and lack of attacking prowess.

we could see it against Hull KR, we could see it aginst shuddersfield and salford, all of these were before the season started, the high kick to the corner for pat is our last tackle option, when that fails we are spannered.

so why is it wrong to expect 17 professional players to look ineterested once a week?

This must be the first time in all my years of watching Wigan that I've ever known fans be upset by pre-season results (which were hardly a disaster - we beat Hull KR reasonably comfortably, against Huddersfield we mainly fielded kids, and at Salford, though poor, we still won; folk are talking as if we got slaughtered in every one of them).

Do you honestly not think you need to wait a couple of weeks to see how the team firms up in real matches? Sure, the first result was disappointing - and Wigan's performance was very poor - but some perspective is called for.

A bit of a late addition but here we go....

Team
I'm sorry bar Darryl Goulding and Jeff Lima - the team played woefully on Sunday. Luaki was appalling and I cannot see any legible reason why we signed him - although I was at first hopeful he would be good. He was garbage at Hull FC and is looking to be garbage for us.

Play
We seemed to lack any idea's in attack, almost as if Wane has thrown out all Madge's good input and gone back to amateur play. Hock passing the ball? Whats all that about? He CAN'T pass, just take it forward for crying out loud. I thought we lacked real direction and good ball distribution, how many passes went to ground or behind the man or even into touch?

Defence
Awful. No enthusiasm, no technique. It was just poor, hardly anyone took out the legs, preferring instead to go upper and try to muscle them to the ground. People dropping off tackles, poor technique, poor communication. MUST improve ASAP.

Fitness
Is it just me or did we look unfit? We looked absolutely massive units (muscle wise), some people have bulked up a lot but fitness wise we just looked unfit. IIRC we had a scrum on our own line in the first 20mins and Huddersfield ran to the scrum and more or less formed it and we were strolling, hands on hips, tired to the scrum position. Not acceptable.

I know its the first game of the season and all that but I for one expected ALOT better. I hope we have improved for Leeds this week - we'll get hammered if we don't - and put in a brilliant performance. I hope.

Unless things improve greatly, I can't see Wigan making the top 4. We didn't sign as well as we should of done or as well as other teams have and therefore are already facing a battle to regain the SL crown and retain the CC. We don't need to make things harder than it already will be.

COME ON WIGAN

Luaki is garbage after one game?

They were all garbage in that one game, weren't they?

I guess that means we should get rid of all of them.

We wont be far off if we judge every player off just one game!



It was a bad day at the office for the whole team bar one or two and i was as angry as the next guy afterwards but people are going too far now.

Luaki is garbage and Wane will never suceed after just one game?



I hope to god we win on Saturday or i cant imagine what people will say next.

It won't be pretty.

After seeing the Squad for Saturday, im going to say Leeds by 18, Hughes and Goulding in the centres against Hardaker and Watkins scares me, I have a feeling Leeds' back line will run riot.

Though I've been counselling patience, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I think Joel was a massive loss for us. Far more so than many seemed to think at the time. True, he wasn't a world-beating centre, but his departure has removed speed, strength, aggression and defensive quality from of a part of the field where we were already quite thin in these aspects.

From what I was told Tomkins would have been back in the pack anyway this year as Wane saw him very much as a 2nd row.

With Carmont & Goulding available, probably, but I think he'd have been our first back-up centre ahead of Gelling or Hughes, and would have played there now, while Carmont is out.

Hard to disagree. Even if he wasn't truly world-class, he was definitely SL quality in the position - solid in defence, and not exactly slow or lacking attacking ability - and he had come through the junior ranks and embedded himself in the team and the playing system as the first choice right centre. Replacing a solid, settled team member isn't always straightforward and, even if you've got someone better as a replacement, it can take a wee while for them to bed in. It's too early to panic, but it's a change that the squad has to get used to. It's bound to go variable for a bit, just as it did when Joel took over the position.

Come off it man! Luaki was garbage at Hull! He will be garbage for us. Take your rose tinted spectacles off.

Come off it man? Just because somebody doesnt do well at one club doesnt mean he wont succeed at another. Anybody judging a new player after just one game is clearly a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

So on your theory, we should go and sign a player who hasn't done well at one club and hope he does well at ours?

And you say I'm a sandwich short of a picnic?

Surely in order to succeed, a club must go and sign players who are actually any good? Or does that make too much sense?

Luaki is woeful. He was woeful at Hull and will be woeful here. Anyone trying to defend him must immediately remove their rose tinted spectacles and get with the real world.

And Lauaki had a good start to his Hull career so he's not always been garbage.

I'm not sure we'll get much out of him but he deserves a chance and anybody could be forgiven for being frustrated at Hull!

Just to clarify - I am not judging him after one game. I'm judging him on his whole SL career which, may I add, has been nothing short of rubbish.

Just because a player doesnt do well at one club doesnt make them garbage.

Your saying we should never sign any player who hasnt done well at every club he has been at? I think its you who need to get with the real world!

If the coaching staff see something in a player which another club isnt getting the best out of why shouldnt we go and sign him?

Wigan have had a record of improving players games over the past couple of years.

If we see a player that has the raw materials to be good enough for us but isn't producing at the moment then who are we to question the club if they want to sign him? The coaching staff have the belief that they can get the best out of players and it's encouraging to see them back themselves.

I agree but the thing is he doesn't had the 'raw materials'. For me, he is probably the worst Wigan signing since Pryce.

In relation to 'raw material' that's why I fully agree with the Gil Dudson signing, he looks like he could be a real brilliant prop.

Lauaki must have something afterall he's been selected for the New Zealand side in the past and he did start his career off well at Hull.

I'm the first to admit it's a strange signing but he's done ok (no more then that) so far and he deserves a chance. Outside of Pryce we've not got too much wrong in terms of signing for a while now.

Wigan have always done this never mind over the last couple of years. Payers like Sam Pananpa and Billy McInty were players who improved when they came here. However, crucially, [uthey were already good players at their existing clubs[/u. We made them better.

What I can [inever[/i recall Wigan having ever done is sign a poor player and turn him into a good player.



The reason we should not sign him is we don't have to take the risk.

Just what is the point in taking on a 27 year old player who should be at least playing well enough to spark the clubs interest when in fact the player is playing poorly? Lauaki should be at the peak of his career not a player we brought in as a work in progress. By this logic we should just sign all the dross and in a season or two we will have a championship side again. It just does not work like that and never has here at Wigan.

Any poor players who we have signed (such as some of the ones in 2006) were not retained. By now Oliver Wilkes and Jordan James should be the mainstay of our pack if it were different.