IMO deacon will be in with MM missing out if Piggy's diet goes to plan.

What does Bailey offer off the bench?

Speaking of fat camp, couldn't help but laugh at the cheap shot at Feka in the Engage competition now on the Wigan website.

Rotational sub for 11, 12 or 13 as required.

Also:

If we lose Phelps, Richards to FB, Carmont to wing, Bailey to centre.
If we lose Richards/Roberts, Carmont to wing, Bailey to centre.
If we lose Gleeson or Carmont, Bailey to centre.
If we lose Sam, Lockers/Gleeson to 6, Bailey to cover.
If we lose Tommy, Sam to 7, Lockers/Gleeson to 6, Bailey to cover.

Deacon, Leuluai, Tomkins and McIlorum were doing the kicking at training the other day so maybe Deacon could be feature more as a player than we think?

It could also mean that Deacon is giving a bit of coaching to those three.

That can all happen if he is on the field though.

Eh?

The original question was what does Bailey offer from the bench and you gave a load of reasons that would benfit us just as much as if he was on the field, my point being that he is better starting IMO as he can still be swapped around different positions but offers no impact off the bench. I would rather keep one of our best organisers on the field for the longest amount of time.

I get you now.

A regular spot for Bailey will do nothing but delay the progress of Mossop and Farrell.

If he is used properly he will help develop Mossop and Farrell.

Agreed.

I'd like to see him played alongside them at times and given the odd rest to accomodate one of them in the side in some of the lesser games(possibly cup games).

The professional attitude to training he will show them will be the best thing he can teach them. If they're both as professional as him in everything they do they have the talent to go to the very top.

I'd like to point out that although he has not been our most effective player during his time at Wigan, Bailey was our most in form back-rower when he got injured last season.

Let's hope the close season Bailey love-in lasts into the playing season. Bailey was playing his best rugby when injured last season, any coincidence that his contract was up?

As it is again this year..?

He's played some good rugby at various times over the past 3 seasons, and now he's on a contract that's good for the club. Who would we have signed that's any better in the 2nd row on the sort of deal we've managed to get Phil on for the next 12 months?

That was probably due to Hocks suspension and he was allowed to pass the
ball more often

Agree 100% Bailey was given far more freedom once Hock was suspended its a shame he was not given the same role while Hock was playing and generate some balanced attack rather than the BN policy of give it to Hock and hope he generates an opportunity.

And further from that when Bailey got injured, Joel T seem to be given the freedom of offloading more often. So it seems BN policy was to allow only one or two ball players in the pack

The best back threes have always had "balance".

A runner, a tackler and a ball handler.

That's not to say that the runner doesn't tackle etc, all the players perform parts of the others game, but they do have their major functions / responsibilities inside the TEAM.

The Runner = J Tomkins/Mossop
The Tackler = Hansen/Bailey
The Ball Handler = Lockers

Like you said they dont always have to stick to that but its good to have a balance. For example Hansen can be the 'Runner' and Tomkins the 'Ball Handler'

I personally do not like this and think it has become a bit like the old scooting hooker syndrome.

While i appreciate it is the case at the moment it does not need to be and nor should it have got to this situation.

It is almost as if we accept deficiencies in players games and then excuse them due to balance.

Less and less do we see this "balance" in the NRL and it certainly does not exist in the Australian and Kiwi sides Internationally.

All members of the back row in my opinion should be individually balanced and if they do not offer something with ball in hand and in defence then i think we are accepting there weaknesses and excusing the flaws in our developmental systems.

Thats true, but then we need to start using the likes of Hansen more in attack then. Get him running the lines like he did when Barrett was here.

You are always going to get certain 'flair' players though, for instance Hock, Lautiti and Puletua and I know this will sound daft but IMO balance suits SL at the moment, especially due to salary cap restraints and the lack of talent coming through compared to Aus and NZ.

I appreciate that some player are going to be naturally stronger in one area and are always going to gravitate towards that style, i just think in the recent past we have accepted that this is there style and that is that, if we are to move forward as a sport in England then we need to move away from this mentality.

A player like Gaz Ellis is a great example, how would you pigeon hole him? He gets through a mountain of work in defence yet also causes defences all sorts of trouble with him lines of running and his handling skills.