Regardless of whether Tomkins is ready or not the bigger issue is surely Smith's defence? He is a complete liability at the moment and unless Nobby can devise a way of protecting him or Smith starts tackling then in 6 games time the season will be as good as over.

Dave

He is 19 soon to be 20 and I agree with what you say above especially the bit in bold as I don't believe Noble when he says "I've never been frightened to use young players ...".

I can't comment on the Qunis performance but it seems he IS ready from what Ihave read and more ready than Tim Smith.

Where has this kid glove appraoch come from with players of his age and ability?



Agree with this also. I'd like Smith to succeed at Wigan and every now and again he produces a flash of good play that was the sort of thing that no doubt got him his previous awards but he seems too big a liabilty in defence to persist with him in the 1st 17 at the moment.

Dave

If you pick players on form, then there's no other option than to drop Smith, keep Mathers out, and have Tomkins and Ainscough in the team. 2 of our best players on the park on Saturday.

If Smith's going to become a great player through time, then he could spend a bit of that time in the reserves - least that way he'd know there was competition for his place. Few others could do with it, too!

He's a Noble style winger



Agree with what your saying though

Really. Expect Hock to be playing regularly at prop forward before he's 30.

History would say so wouldn't it

Faz
Peacock
Morley
Fletcher
I’m sure there have been more also?

All large, strong SR who've been shoved up to the front row as their careers progressed. It’s very, very feasible that Hock will go the same way as the above mentioned

Our best props have been former back-rowers. I did a post on this a few years ago.
Brian McTigue, Terry Clawson, Kevin Ward, Andy Platt, Kurt Sorenson to name a few.

Only time will tell if this is the best thing for Hock but at the moment it looks like by the time hes 29/30 he will be in the front row

I don't care where he ends up as long as its the right thing for him and the team

Guess we all know F all then according to one poster.....

Been saying this for years now, Prop is his natural position and where i am certain he will end up in at most 2 at a push 3 seasons time.

Pongia was a second row, Wiki was a wing/centre, still what did they ever do upfront?

What makes you think that?

Mossop is a better prospect as a prop

He has the frame and the offloading game, when he plays wide in the second row he does not get involved nearly enough, when he is in the middle he will have no option.

He has a strong carry that is usually waisted in the flanks. I also think his defence is a bit patchy when faced with pace and agility, in a more central role this will be less exposed.

I think his frame is more suited to a 2nd rower

Not to sure about him not getting involved enough, can't say I have ever noticed him being lazy and thought he ran it in a lot against Quins

I prefer the idea of him running at centres, 2nd rowers and half backs instead of props, hookers and loose forwards as well

If he was defending further in the middle there is a possibilty he would get bashed around a bit and would definitely get tired quicker as he isn't the hardest working back rower going. This would probably mean he would play shorter stints, take less drives and maybe get more injuries

At the moment his frame is suited to secondrow but year on year he is getting bigger, add to this the fact he brings impact and his outstanding offloading game with him i personally have always felt it is where he will end up.

I do not mind if his game time is reduced as long as he contributes more in the time he is on, i think the last statement is a little tenuous. It does not seem to have done Peacock or Morley 2 very simillar style players to Hock much harm.

I agree it is where he will probably end up but not for a few years yet

I wouldn't say Peacock and Morley are similar style players to Hock but I can see where your coming from

Around what age did they both move up to prop from 2nd row? (got me curious now

)

Morley moved forward after a year in Australia i think. Peacock moved forward in his last year at Bradford/first year at Leeds, playing both positions i think in his second year at Leeds he really became a Prop, rather than a Secondrow/Prop.

There is a massive diffrence there trush me

So they must of been around 28/29 until they were moved up to prop and Hock is only 25 now it should be at least 3 seasons before he is moved to prop probably 4 or 5 being realistic

Best rugby playing prop is Cuthbertson from Manly.

Did he wear number 15 or something around there on Sunday?

Morley would have been about 26, 27 at the oldest.

Peacock 26/27.


I think Hock will follow the same development personally.

He did, wears a skull cap. Brilliant rugby brain.

Yeah he impressed me a lot but not seen enough of him to call him the best rugby prop in the world

A prop, with a brain? It'll never catch on.