I agree that tronc is a good player, and Carvell has gone well at Warrington. The only thing I have an issue with is the conclusion that because Wakey could sign Tronc for example and pay him what he was asking for and fit it under [itheir[/i cap, that it automatically follows that we would have a) been able to fit him in and b) thought he was actually worth the exact figure requested.

We have to accept that we have no idea of the cap breakdown within the club, or what the longer term strategy is, for example do you sign a 100k player now for 120k if you can just about fit him in, or do you wait till you can sign a 150k player for 150k when they become available and you have the extra space.

In the days of the cap, and paying off contracts still counting against it, you need to plan several moves in advance and let it play out like a game of chess.

For me, I have to believe that IL has the best interests of the club at heart and wants to see it being a success, or I'll be too negative to even enjoy the game anymore.

There is a very strict sallary structure at Wakefield, they will not have paid over the odds for him of that i am certain, they will have got him at market value at the most, which is all anyone can ask for.

They are also opperating at a lower cap than us due to financial restrictions and have brought in 2 other pretty high profile signings so i would be surprised if we were not at least in a position to match the offer made to him.

If we were perhaps in a position to sign him jon why do you think we didn't? I have my own theory as to why we didn't, I'm just wondering why you feel we let him pass by.

I perhaps think that we were too busy looking for the enforcer, which he is not, I worry that we put all our eggs in one basket with Webb even though it was unlikely he was going to get a visa and when that seemingly failed we had missed the boat on not just Tronc but some other players as well.

Thats my theory anyway.

We all wanted an enforcer but having a player like Tronc at the club who will generate good meters would also have been nice and we could have looked to the enforcer for 2011 once that stone around our neck Fielden is gone.

I think we did not look at the bigger picture and looked to slot the enforcer in at all costs for 2010, rather than looking to secure a meter man and getting the balance right in 2011, which would have been easier had we signed a yard maker for 2010 rather than signing nobody.

I will cry for 10 days if saints sign Luke Bailey. One of the best props in the NRL and a good leader from the front.

Yeah I would agree with that, Lenegan has previously mentioned that the club lack a network over there in which to spot players who would be suitable for us, now I've no doubt that something is being put together in regards to casting an eye over the NRL however it has come to late for us in the case of Tronc.

I Suppose the enforcer that people talk of is a very difficult position to fill, those types of players are becoming far less common than they once were both here and overseas, and the fact that the players we would class as enforcers usually have somewhat of an aggressive attitude in life which may lead them down the wrong path. This may work against are pursuit of an enforcer because they have done something outside of the game that would stop them receiving a British visa, also Lenegan speaks a lot of finding the right people for Wigan in both playing ability and mental attitude, Lenegan may have found that a lot of the enforcers have somewhat of an attitude problem that may put him off, but should really be kind of expected in that type of player.

It's still my belief that Lenegan is with going with the same squad for 2010 as we have had this year because he plans to use it as a weeding out process, in planning for a big 2011 when a fair bit of money will be available.



I think I'll be more mad than upset that one of are rivals see's a weakness in there team and sign's a player to correct it, while we suffer from the same problem yet do nothing about it.

Perhaps IL is part of the moral majority.
It worries me that he keeps saying he will not cheat the salary cap.
What does he mean by that?
For most of us the cap can be circumvented by Benefit trusts, image rights, scams & allegedly tales of bonuses in cash. How much of this is true we don't know but if the majority of clubs are using these methods and IL is not then we have had it. We won't win anything, ever!
When we've looked at other teams squads they've had far more quality players than us and we knew DW wouldn't allow us to use the above methods of bypassing the cap.
Comments on other threads about Wire's squad and how they fit them all under £1.65m.
We've needed props for the past four years or more. IL has brought in half a squad but not a single prop which has been our priority for years.
As has been said, if we don't strengthen the squad next year will be another year of disappointment.
No announcement about the coach, no new signings when our rivals are strengthen their squads. So what's the future for Wigan RL then?
After decades of watching Wigan, perhaps now is the time to consider doing something else weekends.

The fact we are not that far off a good team shows we do not have to cheat to win things, we have nearly won the challenge cup this year.

Once Fielden, Feka, Bailey and Carmont leave within the next few years we will have so much money we will not know what to do with it. With that money we can buy 2 props for sure and one other player, and all three will be top class.

I've had it in my mind for sometime, call it wishful thinking, that were we to pool the money together from Fielden, Bailey and Feka we could perhaps then invest it in Brent Kite who has signaled that he'd be willing to come to the UK if the right deal came along, as well as investing in LMS from the same funds, that would solve are problems I think.

Can't believe I read that! "We nearly won the Challenge Cup" When was that?
We lost a semi final last Saturday because we were hopeless. A very average Warrington with one Aussie playing his best rugby over here played us off the park. Second half we had a good 20 minutes.
As I said, we've needed props for years yet IL has failed to bring any in.
He said he looked at six and none were right for Wigan. Yeh, right!
As for having spare money, we said that when Betts had 2 years left on his playing contract. How many times was that said about Vialiki?(sp)
Now it's when Fielden goes!
Wigan RL chairmen have been spinning us that one since we moved into the JJB/DW in 1999.
These are excuses for failure, not reasons!

Tronc is killing it in the NRL week after week - a huge coup for Wakefield and a huge disappointment for us.

gets the line up on him quick because of how he walks into the tackle.

I think if we got someone who could just make metre after metre then we'd be so much better off territory wise and that in itself would relieve a lot of the pressure on our backs.

Maybe it's that exact strict salary structure that enabled him to be signed, like i said none of us know the actual salary structure inside Wigan, and what potential signings are/are not after, and who else is on the radar. I gave the over the odds figure as an example, and didn't necessarily mean that tronc himself fell into that category.

Only time will tell, but I don't feel for myself (and of course this is only for myself) that it would help to get annoyed at IL when I don't know any facts about the situation or plans for future recruitment.

What's the alternative though ted?

Get upset, get frustrated about something we can do nothing about (unless anybody happens to have spare millions laying around and is prepared to buy the club and [ihope[/i they can deliver us into the promised land), or support the team and club and hope it gets better.

I think its only right to express our frustration.

I agree all we can do is hope for the situation to change but year on year we are being told the same thing but every season the year it will turnaround is also moving a year into the future.

I do think IFL is the man to take us forward and genuinely like the bloke from what i have seen but he has made mistakes, all we can hope is that he is learning along the way, as it does seem sometimes the same errors from the outside are being repeated, but that is exactly our perspective the outside as it should be, and i do think he is working towards a plan, but he is i feel too eager to be throwing dates about when things will change which gives the fans that extra sense of frustration.

I would prefer if he said little rather than sometimes saying too much, and often offering some strange justifications for events at the club, ie Pirteck sponsorship and looking at Hunt etc as a realistic signing, its the inconsistencies that at the moment are getting to me as a fan.

Don't get me wrong jonh, not saying there's anything wrong with people expressing their frustration and i'm sorry if i'm coming across like that.

It's more the burn IL brigade that i'm curious as to why they get quite so vehemently upset about a situation over which they have zero control, and know even less of the facts about.

I didn't mean to imply you were part of that category.

Maybe i'm too laid back, I've got a lovely mrs, lovely kids, and I still enjoy my rugby even the losses/frustrations

I do think IFL is working to a plan, i too have a very happy home life but i am also passionate about the rugby and i in truth cannot enjoy the frustrations.

Having our Chairman stating we are looking at a half and a Prop and not delivering as yet, and making it very public in the media his meetings with agents and players is the main cause of my frustration along with indecission about the coaching or so it seems.

IFL has always stated or on the surface tried to come across as very open with the fans which i hope in truth is not the case, simply because at the moment he does not seem to be living up to some of the big statements he has made, i genuinly think less should be more but when a Chairman does speak to the media/fans it should be very clear and concice and not put unrealistic/non comittal statements out there.

I agree much of this is due to a lack of knowledge from the fans point of view and the dealings should remain behind closed doors until they are 100% confirmed, but i do not think the Chairman should add fuel to the fire contributing to the building of expectations.

IFl may well pull a few aces from the pack and generate some satisfaction for all concerned but missing out on players like Tronc and O'Meley is very frustrating looking at the weaknesses in our own team. Add to this rumours about Bailey going to Saints etc which i agree are only rumours, but at the same time it does make you wonder when we are going to be in a position to improve our great club.

You must have the patience of a Saint (so to speak) but the mixed messages that come from the club and the public way we seem to go about our business do nothing to help our cause at times.

Maybe i am too patient I kinda had to be pre 84/85 or I would have stopped watching altogether - I was gutted when we lost the CC final to Widnes in 84, but it was still moving in the right direction so I kept the faith.

Like i said jonh, am not classing you in that category of fan, you can always make a reasoned debate about why you're frustrated and that's a good thing.

The main thing IL needs to do now - IMO - is resolve the coaching issue. There are definite difficulties surrounding player recruitment, which many of us aren't aware of. But Nobby is coming to the end of his deal, and head-coach is a position not covered by salary cap restrictions - those are two good reasons for us to get out there and try to bring someone in who can get us up to the next level.

I know that's not easy, but Wigan is still an attractive proposition and we can afford to pay good wages. I doubt that we'd be able to recruit a top NRL coach, but someone like Macguire - a young guy on the up, with a great understanding of the game, and technical stratetic skills - would be ideal.

Despite last Saturday, I still feel the Wigan team is good enough, man for man, to make hay in SL, if only we had a man in charge who could get the best out of it.

But yes, we could make use of a quality prop too, because Fielden and Feka are just not delivering.

I definitely could see that making a difference, and I think it may even be possible to get a lot more out of Stuart and Feka with the right training/conditioning

Another thing i'd consider doing if I was in charge would be seeing if Wayne Bennett would be interested in providing some 'remote' consultancy/mentoring to whoever we did sign as Coach

Saw it in the evening post about Lam and it made me think he'll be back at Wigan in 2010.

He said he'd love a coaching position either as head coach or as assistant coach. With the rumours that Nobby only wants a 1 year deal i can see Lam coming in as an assistant for next season with a view to taking over for 2011.

Said that last week smooth take over and chance to get up to speed

It would seem the best way to go if Lenagan is telling the truth and Noble does only want a 1 year deal.

As a head coach i'm not overly sure about Lammy straight away due to a lack of experience and the fact that this club is so different from the one he left behind but given a year to bed in that could solve a few problems.

The one thing Lammy would do is bring the youngsters on and give them plenty of confidence.

From speaking to people inside the club i believe he does only want 1 more year then wanting to work in Australia.

Lam could certainly help young Sam if this comes about i think its best for all the Club wins Lam wins and Noble wins.
Lam also gets 12 months to highlight who he wants out and who he wants in.