Probably all talk from Wane. There’s no precedent for him to change the style of play or players in certain positions. What have we heard from some player interviews recently, things like ‘not happy with how we’ve played for a couple of years’ etc. He’s stale and lacks the coaching staff around him or the brains himself to move us in a different direction.

Reading the aortic;es there does seem to be an element of saying what he and no doubt the club think we fans want to hear,the proof is in the pudding of course so at this point we will have to take him at his word that things will change.

Haha... .I thought that's what you must mean!

I've been a critic of Wane, but I don't think he's wired that way. For example, the perception that they spend all the training sessions wrestling rather than practicing attacking moves is deeply unpopular with the fans, yet he has still been talking about those in his pre-season interviews.

Waney is quoted there as saying Escare has played those positions. That's ok, but he has to move more players around than Morgan.
IMO Sam has to be moved from fb position during a game. Start him at fb then move him to the halves as an option when attacking the opposition's line. If Escare played 6 or 7 with George in the halves then we've two running half backs and no play maker. Should Lockers be off the field then we're stuck and will look as clueless next year as last season. Move Sam up to the halves when on attack and that will confuse the opposition no end. Add Lockers into that with Escare fb and the threat to the opposition line is massive.
Do that and we will see entertaining rugby and I'll bet our points scored tally would increase massively.

The more time I spend thinking about this question, the more I think it's not our biggest question.

The biggest problem/question is what do we do when SOL goes off the field during a game. Not only do we fall apart defensively, but all out attacking structures look terrible without a top class ball playing 13 on the field. Maybe Hamlin is a good ball player, but if he isn't it's just another season of dreading SOL being interchanged.

Some other clubs leave a hooker on the field and move them to loose to keep 2 good ball players in the pack during interchange periods. You lose some size, yes, but it seems our attacking play is so heavily reliant on having a good passer at loose forward that the trade off may be worth it.

Cas did it with Milner, and I've seen Widnes keep white and Heremaia on the field at the same time.

The scouting report suggests not. He seems to be lacking in ball handling skills and has no offload to his game either. He runs hard and has a decent step and he tackles hard. So he isn't going to be a replacement for SOL.

However there are very few in the world game who are ball handling 13s in any case. Joel Tomkins would seem to be the best suited amongst our squad but injuries seem to be his constant issue these days. John Bateman is rather proving in this World Cup that passing isn't his forte either.

Remember that SOL was a Stand Off who was converted rather like Ellery Hanley (who I think started on the wing then moved to centre then Stand Off). The like of Gene Miles and Dean Bell were very good 13s too. It may be more fruitful to consider who amongst the backs could be converted. I know Waney had his eyes on Sutcliffe at Leeds but he seems to be happy there now. Someone like Jordan Abdul may make a decent 13 in time.

I have floated this idea before and I would still like to see it tried out.
Sam Tomkins to loose forward.
He can tackle, he can read the game, he has excellent ball handling skills.
It would solve many problems if it worked.

I think that takes the lack of size argument to a whole new level.

I wouldnt mind seeing McIlorum or Powell put there for 20 minute spell until SOL is ready to come back on.
But it was painfully clear last year that having Isa, or Tomkins or Flower (the year before) at 13 just completely breaks down any attacking structure we have.

That was one of the main reasons I was sad to see Gregson go. Because he's decent size and speed, and can also play stand off (like O'Loughlin), and had a decent passing game. At least he would have been able to provide the link up play that we need from our loose forward.

The vast majority of teams, though, both here and in the NRL, manage perfectly well without this mythical ball-playing 13 (who are like hen's teeth these days). Why can't Wigan?

Simples - because we don't have ball playing 6 & 7 either and 9 for that matter.

Spot on. Nor another leader

It's not enough just to be able to tackle. How is he realistically going to stop their forwards finding their fronts and getting a quick ptb? He would spend the entire game clinging onto the ankles of the opposition forwards in defence, and catching his breath in attack.

Even moving Sam back to the halves will double his tackle stint. He will find himself targeted by second rowers like Murdoch-Masilla who will run straight at him. I think Waney is worried that Sam could be a weak link in the defence and have no energy left to attack if he is back at 6. Going to 13 is a non starter.

As I said Joel Tomkins is the best equipped, if only he was fit. A more creaitve solution might be Gelling. I just couldn't trust him though.

It doesn't have to be a 13 necessarily. In it's most basic form it's more to do with one of the forwards (middles

) running to the line, and passing out the back at the last second. The fact that O'Loughlin has a better passing game than almost anyone else on our team is a bonus. But if we just had someone else who could do the first thing to a decent standard, that would fix a big problem of our attacking move breaking down when the captain isn't on the pitch.
O'Loughlin does it well, James Graham, Grant Millington and to an extent, Cuthbertson. But it seems that none of our other forwards are capable of this.

Leaving out the obvious issue of the props failing to lay a platform I think our biggest issue is that we're already losing at the play the ball. Our distribution is poor and predictable. This WC has shown what happens when it's this way (Hodgson) and it stifles attack. All of a sudden Roby comes on, speeds things up, gives the PTB a bit of variety and the attack gets some vigour. Our halfs look so much better because they have that bit extra time and space to move.

I think outside of sorting the props, our biggest way to improve should be at 9. Mickey Mac did okay against Ireland (against inferior opposition though) but whoever we go with, I want a dynamic hooker who can switch things up and make the defenses guess. When this happens I suspect you'll see the halves playing much better.

I believe that in training the mantra from Winder at the play the ball believe or not is speed and keep it simple and the quality of the pass is less important.
I think you are spot on in saying that distribution is poor and predictable.
MM looked a different player with Ireland so hopefully he can bring some of form back with for next season but speed isn't his greatest asset even when he plays well.

Roby is in a different league to all of our players bar SOL and maybe ST on a good day.

Roby is easy to play against in SL though when we do it properly. If you make him work his off in defence making 50+ tackles he’s not as effective at dummy half. We’ve done that pretty well a few times.

Which ironically is one of the main reasons I think we struggled last year. Our forwards were doing ridiculous amounts of tackling and having nothing left when they have the ball.

I think it’s due to a change in our game plan since the 7 tackle rule was brought in. When we get within the 20m we’re an all or nothing team, seemingly scared to put the ball in the in-goal so barely get any repeat sets. We do the kick behind defence but in ridiculous situations like 30m from the line on the second tackle of the set.

The hooking role is a good point. Neither MM or Powell offer that threat. Neither does TL.

There is a place for one in the squad as a hooker but not both for me.

Given the current squad I would perhaps not be shocked to see 1 of MM and Powell starting with Escaré coming off the bench as “impact” changing things up.

I also think MM could do a job at loose off the bench similar to Milner at Cas off the bench when Locky needs a rest.

I’d have loved to see Dwyer at Wigan as our bench option, but the reality is we have to lose 1 maybe 2 players who can play hooker from the squad before we look to bring in a new more dynamic 9.

McIlorum got plenty of praise from Aussie commentators playing for Ireland, in particular for his smarts at acting half.

O'Loughlin OTOH has come in for some criticism for not really doing very much. That may well be because Bennett isn't used to having a ball-playing 13 as such, and has now effectively got three halfbacks on the field anyway with Widdopp at fullback.

McIlorum looked to play a less structured game for Ireland then he does for us and he did it very well.

Food for thought maybe.

Lockers stands out against the big teams IMO. I thought he was good against Australia (didn't they only score when he was off the pitch?) and expect him to play well against Tonga tomorrow.

As an aside, it really looks like Williams has gone backwards this year. In the brief periods he played for england he looked like he had no idea what role he had or what he was trying to do. He looks like he needs to sit down and reboot his game, because there's no doubt he has raw ability, and it would be a crying shame if he never kicks on.

Agree to a degree but I'd read very little in to his World Cup form. He's played 20 mins against Lebanon when the team had fallen to bits and couldn't hold the ball and 40 mins against France when again the team had fell off a cliff. In that 40 mins he started at stand off, moved to hooker and finished in the centre.

No wonder he wasn't sure what his role was!!

I know what you're saying, but what you really want to see is him grab the game by the scruff of the neck and make things happen regardless of what his role is supposed to be. Its that next step which Aussie halfbacks seem to make with ease and ours don't. In less than a season Michael Morgan has gone from support act to easily ready to start for Queensland/Australia as halfback, and there are signs Munster will do the same. Both have been brilliant in cameo roles in a variety of positions and have looked at home anywhere they're played - Munster has looked great at fullback, centre and stand off, Morgan at centre, halfback (and hooker when required).

Again off topic, but its being reported here that the Raiders are looking at McIlorum now Hodgson is injured.