Thank God Wane isn't concerned by our dire attacking structures, heaven forbid he would put any time into fixing it. Best to get them doing a week of hill sprints instead.

When he comes out with comments that he isn't concerned, it really does worry me that he doesn't think we are far off. Does he not know the fans are bored stiff, and that even if we stop dropping ball, we will still be the most boring team in SL to watch? Does he think the fans enjoy watching a wrestle in defence and a team that literally catch and pass along a flat line?

Quote ="Wigg'n"Lockers is only on 100k max because of the homegrown/testimonial rule.'" There has never been a homegrown rule limiting cap value (with the clubs voting that the marquee rule should come in instead) and the testimonial rule was removed when the marquee rule was brought in place. Since it's well documented Sam is Wigans marquee, there are no rules which stop SOLs value being whatever he's being paid (which I believe to be quite a chunk.) media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Super%20 ... 202016.pdf

Quote ="Wigg'n"Lockers is only on 100k max because of the homegrown/testimonial rule.'" There has never been a homegrown rule limiting cap value (with the clubs voting that the marquee rule should come in instead) and the testimonial rule was removed when the marquee rule was brought in place. Since it's well documented Sam is Wigans marquee, there are no rules which stop SOLs value being whatever he's being paid (which I believe to be quite a chunk.) media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Super%20 ... 202016.pdf

This is my view also. Over the past few weeks people have been hoping that as players returned from injury things would pick up and that because while they were out we still scraped several wins we were in a good position and so we could kick on from there. That wouldn't be an unreasonable stance to take if it were not for the fact before the injuries hit our attack still looked clueless.

With ST back and when Farrell returns we may be better than Friday because the pair of them are players who offer some leadership. If MM comes back in August it could improve things again on that score but it may be too late by then. The trouble is individual players having a go and busting a gut is what we rely on. We aren't relying on good tactics and a good game plan so in my opinion even with a full team while it may be a bit better we will still come up short against better coached teams. That was the difference between us winning and losing the GF v Leeds, IMO.

I don't know how well your pack has played in previous weeks, but a lot of what you can do in attack is based on quick PTB's and forward dominance. There was only a spell of 10-15 minutes on Friday when our intensity in defence was poor and you started to make yards - and you scored your tries. It is hard to play attacking, off the cuff rugby on the back of slow play the balls due to dominant defence. You have dangerous backs, but I think you need a couple of props to become the Wigan you once where. Our props on Friday - Taylor, Watts, Bowden, Green (and Thompson/Ellis) all have excellent footwork at the line, which enables them to make better contact into defenders to either get a quick play the ball, or poke their nose through. Your props are pretty much built the same - Clubb, Crosby, Sutton - they just seem (to me) to be up and down players with no footwork/offload ability so if they are getting dominated, they cannot change the way they play

This is spot on!

Dumbest team? Or tactical?

I think Wane verdict will only be in at the end of the season. The injury list is large, but also intriguing. I for one don't believe that our injured player (bar Micky) are as bad, or require as much time off as they're being granted.
I do however believe Wane is playing a squad game resting our senior players rotating their playing time so they'll be fresh at the business end of the season.

In Wane's early days he won the LLS, then had a spend first team who were knocked out of the playoffs, I think at the same time 5th played Leeds went on to win the comp. He's learnt from this and being tactical about how and when he's full first team come to the fold.

In the meantime of resting senior players he awards the young lads with game time at SL so they're ready if needs must.

I imagine we'll come to in the next few months when the senior players are all back playing and given time to gel.

Well once again I had a very enjoyable weekend in Wigan. Just a shame about the rugby on Friday night, which was a bit rubbish.



It is getting to the point where I'm getting cautious about encouraging friends to accompany me, though.

Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"There has never been a homegrown rule limiting cap value (with the clubs voting that the marquee rule should come in instead) and the testimonial rule was removed when the marquee rule was brought in place. Since it's well documented Sam is Wigans marquee, there are no rules which stop SOLs value being whatever he's being paid (which I believe to be quite a chunk.) media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Super%20 ... 202016.pdf'" Interesting, thanks. So Lockers' salary has gone up massively because of that rule being scrapped? No wonder we are at the cap limit.

Quote ="Magic Superbeetle"There has never been a homegrown rule limiting cap value (with the clubs voting that the marquee rule should come in instead) and the testimonial rule was removed when the marquee rule was brought in place. Since it's well documented Sam is Wigans marquee, there are no rules which stop SOLs value being whatever he's being paid (which I believe to be quite a chunk.) media.therfl.co.uk/docs/Super%20 ... 202016.pdf'" Interesting, thanks. So Lockers' salary has gone up massively because of that rule being scrapped? No wonder we are at the cap limit.

It gets worse www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7912716

It gets worse www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7912716

There is still a club trained player rule. The maximum value of which is £100K. You get it in £5K chunks for every club trained player who completed 10 salary cap relevant matches the preceding season. So to get the full whack this season you would need 20 club trained players who had all completed 10 matches in 2015.

Quote ="apollosghost"It gets worse www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7912716'" WEIRD that he uses Sarge (a centre) playing full back as an excuse. 1. He's played there for weeks, 2. Why not play Tierney then?

Quote ="apollosghost"It gets worse www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7912716'" WEIRD that he uses Sarge (a centre) playing full back as an excuse. 1. He's played there for weeks, 2. Why not play Tierney then?

So the only game that matters is the GF? May as well not bother with a season ticket if that is the case.

I think it is pretty obvious what you suggest is just simply not true and that there is no evidence for it.

In the league it's a case of winning the GF, that's the end goal. And doing what is possible to be in the best position to do so. That and the CC are the only two trophies to be won really.

The goal is always to win, however it's not seen as the end of the world if we lose games along the way as it's only 2-points, as long as we win enough along the way to be in a good position to enter the playoffs, and of course win. No point in running players ragged during the league only to have them exhausted and carrying too many injuries for when it matters.

Evidence? Wigan/Wane is hardly going to reveal this, why would he? It would reduce the crowds at games etc.

I'd bet good money Wigan will 'come to' at the business end of the season, and probably once again be in the GF with a fully fit (give or take first team).

By no evidence I mean it is obvious the players have been injured. You don't rotate players by leaving them out for weeks on end. You rest them for the odd game and play a junior for the odd game. You don't rest the senior players for weeks and play a junior second row forward as a 6 for several games as part of some great plan.

There is no master plan going on here. The number of changes made are too many and players are out for too long. Only Bateman has been rested by what you would normally consider that to mean and that was after he got nearly knocked out.

If you want to argue when all the players are back and fit we will be a better side, fair enough but that won't happen unless there is a drastic improvement to the attack.

What worries me is for a club that is supposed to have this production line we have been waiting for weeks for the first 17 to be fit which implies if we do suffer injuries our reserves are not good enough to cover the loss. We have no one adequate for 6, we are stuck playing Powell at 9 and at 1 Wane has just said he's had a centre playing there so if Sam gets injured its that or Tierney which has been an experiment quietly dropped anyway. A centre goes down and its Bateman out of the pack.

As to it all being about winning the GF then if what you say is true the whole format is bankrupt. Fans won't pay money week after week to watch their team play bad RL even if they scrape wins. Neither will they do it if they are being short changed by star players left out when fit. It's supposed to be an enjoyable experience going to games, not purgatory.

If Wane is of the mindset that we won't start playing until the playoffs and anything sub-standard before then is acceptable, and the fans and pundits can lump it, then he will surely be fine if the fans start to show up around the same time around the start of September?

I also see he's got a new buzz word, detail. Well Mr Wane, let me tell you, your middles are under the pump and your details aren't very detailed. In fact, we the fans are under the pump watching this dross you're coaching, we're in middle of it and the details are all too obvious, we can see your set moves three games before you run them.

Quote ="apollosghost"It gets worse www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7912716'" It really is embarrassing reading articles like this. Wane picks the team, he picked a centre to play fullback nobody else. What really really irritates me is the "hard week" comments. I know of no other team that picks up as many training injuries as us. I'm told training is very physical as it is, hardly a tactic used to keep players fresh. More worryingly however, he seems to be totally missing the point. Maybe the players are sick of "tough weeks"? Maybe the players could do with spending the week training with the ball in hand developing an attacking structure more than just "the move" their timing, and working on their basic skills which they currently seem totally unable to do. I can just see Wane at the end of the Hull match thinking, "A cant wet tu get um on t'field get stuck into um and let um bet each uther up!" I'm not particularly confident of a win V's Leeds I do however know that the pitch is wide and very suited to "the move" we have Tomkins back who is pretty much the focus of "the move" and Leeds are absolutely atrocious. We really should be putting a score on them.

Quote ="apollosghost"It gets worse www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-w ... -1-7912716'" It really is embarrassing reading articles like this. Wane picks the team, he picked a centre to play fullback nobody else. What really really irritates me is the "hard week" comments. I know of no other team that picks up as many training injuries as us. I'm told training is very physical as it is, hardly a tactic used to keep players fresh. More worryingly however, he seems to be totally missing the point. Maybe the players are sick of "tough weeks"? Maybe the players could do with spending the week training with the ball in hand developing an attacking structure more than just "the move" their timing, and working on their basic skills which they currently seem totally unable to do. I can just see Wane at the end of the Hull match thinking, "A cant wet tu get um on t'field get stuck into um and let um bet each uther up!" I'm not particularly confident of a win V's Leeds I do however know that the pitch is wide and very suited to "the move" we have Tomkins back who is pretty much the focus of "the move" and Leeds are absolutely atrocious. We really should be putting a score on them.

Wait and see, that's all I can say. I could be wrong, and hopefully not, but I'm betting come Sept you'll see a different dominant Wigan playing well looking like the form side in the comp. See you at the GF.

I admire your optimism but fear you are going to be very disappointed.

I guess most of us thought Williams was fine at 6 last season. Lets give him a few more weeks to settle in, eh?

Of course he'd benefit from having a halves partner who offered a bit more, but that's been well rehed here.

I meant if he gets an injury not as a 6 himself. We ended up playing Gregson there! So I was trying to highlight that although we have I think 28 or 29 players (can't remember) in the squad we seem to have zero depth in certain positions to the extent in this example our options are forwards (Lockers o Gregson).

We might be better but if we are I am certain it won't be as result of a grand plan where Wane is resting players for around a month at a time and playing the likes of Sutton at 13 and Gregson at 6. There is no doubt the injuries have affected the team but the attack has been an issue for longer than this season.

It definitely has. It isn't even like we are trying and the ball just isn't sticking. We aren't even attempting to play some good open rugby, there are no lines being run, no options for the half backs, it really does seem like Wane is telling them not to exert any effort, professional rugby players cannot be as clueless as they are looking at the moment, it really is that bad that I laugh at our play at times. It's embarrassing to watch, the players themselves must be embarrassed to be repeating the same move over and over with absolutely zero success. Our only breaks come from a missed tackle at the moment.

The performances really are my major issue at the moment, not the results. If you perform the results take care of themselves.

A fresh team of

Tomkins
Charnley Sarg Gells Manfredi
Williams Smith
Flower Powell Lockers
Tomkins Faz
Batman (packs interchangeable in a few positions)

Will be a massive threat.

Anyone who's played RL or been around it long enough will know the impact it has on your body, minimising the amount of games the players have will massively benefit at the back end of the season.

Regardless of a very indifferent season we are still close to the top of the table, senior players rested and given longer to recover and the younger lads have been give crucial game time.

I'm betting it all pays off come October.

Half my fear is that you're correct, if that's the case it saddens me, I don't want to be bored to death for 7 months hoping we grind out wins on the hope we get players fit and firing for the last month of the season. Good players coached by a good coach will play good rugby, that's what makes them good. That shouldn't take 7 months of effort and resting players every season.

I agree Chris, it is sad (if my theory comes true) fans pay good money to see a team perform at their best in a game of RL, I believe the players are always trying to win, but we aren't fielding the best team really available.

Where is Faz currently? Look at Wane's post match interviews recently, is he disheartened? Angry? No not really. He's looking at things from a different perspective. Constantly we're told such and such is back this week, then they're not. They'll be a time to start our GF run, when that is will depend on how the season is progressing, currently where we are doesn't require immediately rushing players back just yet. Timing is everything.

If we get to the GF/CC all will be forgotten and forgiven.