Not anti Wigan bile at all. Just don't rate O'Loughlin at the present time. I am not denying his class I just don't think that after his injuries he is performing at his best. In the Aussie match he IMO did not perform well and gave away too many penalties. May be this was due to his own frustration at his below standard performance I don't know.
May be you should ask yourself why my criticism of a Wigan player should be transcribed by you into anti Wigan bile.

He is not the only Wigan player you have had a pop at. Previously you had a pop at Joel Tomkins as well.

Reason England lost the match was more down to defensive errors in certain moments and Wigan players were involved but so were others which oyu really have not mentioned so therefore you come over as Anti Wigan. If you were balanced or fair you would point out more than just errors from 1 team.

If you read the response to my comment about Joel Tomkins you will see Wigan supporter agreed with me. Can you honestly say that Joel deserves to be included before Elliott Whitehead? He was responsible for the Aussies first try. I thought Tomkins and O'Loughlin were two weak links. That is my opinion your opinion may be different. These are the only two Wigan players I have commented on even though others were playing. I do not feel the defeat was due to Wigan players, the coach picked the players and set the team tactics and that has been the basis of my argument all along. I used the examples of the Wigan players to show IMO how McNamara continues poor selection even after the Chase/Sinfield debacle. That incidentally is not getting at the Cas/Rhino clubs. Some of you on here seem to be a little sensitive.

Josh Hodgson was partly at fault for two of the tries on Sunday, but it's hardly been mentioned

if he played for us i bet Keiththered would have reminded us.

So your not Anti Wigan but again you just have a pop at Wigan players and justify it by saying others were playing as well.

Be honest you are Anti Wigan yet again you only name Wigan players in that game. Thats the point that makes you Anti Wigan.

Would you play Watkins next week. He was the worst defender on Sunday yet you neglect that and the fact Hodgson defense also let him down. Again a point you do not make.

You say your not Anti Wigan but the facts show you are.

I was not again having a pop at Wigan players I was merely repeating what I had already said in previous posts.

You do not actually comment on the original point of the discussion. Should Joel Tomkin, who was nothing more than ordinary since his return from Union have been selected in preference to Elliott Whitehead, who was fantastic all season? Sean O'Loughlin did not appear to be fit after his injury problems and playing at his normal standard. He also gave away too many penalties. If O'Loughlin was on top of his game no one would doubt he should be in the team but he isn't.

If you feel that is anti Wigan because I did not go through the whole team then so be it. It was their selection I was querying. I do not think they should have been selected and their performances proved my point. I did not question McNamara's other selections hence I did not comment on their performances. It is easy to see players faults after the match as in Watkins and Hodgson. The situation with Tomkin and O'Loughlin should have been clear to the coach before the match.

Tomkins is as good as any second row England have but that really does not say a lot as its England's only real weakness since Hock got kicked out last season. Whitehead has looked good at times but so does Faz against weaker sides. And he is in the side as his defending is better than most of the others. For me i would have taken John Bateman along as cover as its obvious its England's major issue. On one leg SOL is a better player than Westerman.

Also i take it given your judgement on Joel you have seen every Wigan game he has played this season. Same with Whitehead have you seen all of his games.

Was it possible to watch both of these players play each game they turned out in?

FWIW I haven't seen all of Joels games since he returned but on my limited views I wouldn't start him for Wigan ahead of Farrell or Bateman. SOL is a given at 13.

I agree with you. If England had the Joel Tomkins of 3 years ago and Hock at second row then England would have made the final now. Think England have 3-4 second row players at about the same level but none stand out.

The favourite changes that would be made on here are Farrell and Tomkins from the 2nd row to be replaced by Ferres and Whitehead.
Ferres is playing off the bench so is in the 17.
Whitehead misses too many tackles to be considered against NRL teams.
Saints fans think LMS should be there but he gives away too many penalties.
McNamara seems to be playing it tight by selecting Farrell and Tomkins as both miss very few tackles and concede few penalties.

Tank123 will be happy with you. He will definitely consider you pro Wigan. It doesn't matter to him that you give reasons for your selections, only that you don't criticise Wigan players. I don't happen to agree with you in the case of Tomkins and Whitehead but there you are. I am anti Wigan you know.

You say you're not anti Wigan but the above comments suggest differently. How do you recommend O'Loughlin gets back to full fitness and able to play to his 'normal standard' without actually playing? Apart from which, his contribution when on the field was excellent. He made lots of tackles, linked the play quite well and carried the ball up as strongly as any player on the field. He also dominated the ruck better than anyone else in an England shirt. Not bad for a player coming back from injury. He was far from a weak link in any case, which is what you appear to be suggesting. There were far worse players on show who made far worse errors. Strangely you fail to mention those. Care to explain why? You also say he 'gave away too many penalties'. I think I'm right in saying he gave away two, one of which was later ruled by the disciplinary as 'no case to answer'. In other words, he didn't commit the offence he was penalised for. Therefore he gave 1 legitimate penalty away. How do you conclude that he 'gave away too many penalties' without mentioning all the other players that gave away penalties too? There were plenty England players to choose from. Why no Ferres? Why no Burgess? Why no...well I'll stop there as I think we already know why!

We haven't really got past booing Sam Tomkins have we?

Looks like it was noticed

This tournament has changed my opinion of O'Loughlin. finally seen what the Wigan fans have been talking about for years. Great choice for captain after Sir Kev stepped down. Tomkins has improved and for me, this anti-Wigan/anti-Leeds fighting needs to stop. When an England shirt is on, we are all England fans! (from a Leeds fan)

"O'Loughlin "the best ball handling forward in the world" says Jamie Peacock." Lifted from twitter...

Can't disagree with that based on this tournament. He's been superb.

Simply not clinical enough England.

We've had enough chances to be well clear.

Dan Sarginson, man of the tournament for me!

Played very well but wouldn't go as far as best player in the four nations.

Straight forward why England wont progress to the final, not enough Wigan players.

I think with a better scrum-half, we actually win that game.

Feel pretty low at the minute but there has to be some positivity. We could and should have won two games against the two nations people say are head and shoulders above us. I've watched us play against these two over the years and seen us dominated and have to hang on by our fingernails (or just get battered). That isn't happening at the minute. We look on an even footing with them and just need more belief.

We need a breakthrough win but it's a young side and can continue to improve.

Gutted with the result but what a game!plenty of positives and fine margins.All the Wigan lads performed well and Dan Sarginson again played out of his skin.