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don't know whether it's been said before but couldn't the club try to get a major multi national company to sponsor the stadium, get somebody like Microsoft, LG, Pepsi, Honda, Virgin etc to stump up say £10 million towards construction costs and then the stadium is named after them for a period of 10 year or longer? same with the stands but with smaller companys, lets say £1million buys you 5 years with your brand/logo plastered around said stand, if it could work then there is £14 million out of the £25 million somebody mentioned earlier, along with the sale of some of the clubs existing propertys and maybe a grant or 2 and it wouldn't cost IL must money if at all possible
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If we did get our own stadium we could have a Bell End.
The old ones are the best, Yeeeeehaaaaw...
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| Quote ="Baked Bean Boogie"don't know whether it's been said before but couldn't the club try to get a major multi national company to sponsor the stadium, get somebody like Microsoft, LG, Pepsi, Honda, Virgin etc to stump up say £10 million towards construction costs and then the stadium is named after them for a period of 10 year or longer? same with the stands but with smaller companys, lets say £1million buys you 5 years with your brand/logo plastered around said stand, if it could work then there is £14 million out of the £25 million somebody mentioned earlier, along with the sale of some of the clubs existing propertys and maybe a grant or 2 and it wouldn't cost IL must money if at all possible'"
What planet are you on?
There's still a world wide recession. Wigan struggled to get a shirt sponsor at the value they put on it.
No big company is going to invest over here in Rugby League, what's in it for them? I know it sounds negative, which is not like me, but it is reality. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"What planet are you on?
There's still a world wide recession. Wigan struggled to get a shirt sponsor at the value they put on it.
No big company is going to invest over here in Rugby League, what's in it for them? I know it sounds negative, which is not like me, but it is reality.'"
no need to get your knickers in a twist, it was just a thought, but surely a substantial chunk of the money could be generated by sponsorship by a multi billion pound and several multi million pound companys even in a recession, surely it could be claimed as tax right offs, surely these huge companys spend 5 times that in advertising every year |
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| Quote ="Baked Bean Boogie"no need to get your knickers in a twist, it was just a thought, but surely a substantial chunk of the money could be generated by sponsorship by a multi billion pound and several multi million pound companys even in a recession, surely it could be claimed as tax right offs, surely these huge companys spend 5 times that in advertising every year'"
I like your optimism, but if it was as simple as getting a big company to sponsor your stadium then off you go and get one, then every one would be doing it. There is nothing really wrong with the ground we have now. Most peoples problem is that Latics play there. |
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I would absoulutely love a stadium like the HJ but slightly bigger, personally, I hate the DW, its a football stadium, no arguement about it. Sadly it'll never happen, we are there forever.
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| Quote ="21-12"I would absoulutely love a stadium like the HJ but slightly bigger, personally, I hate the DW, its a [ufootball stadium[/u, no arguement about it. Sadly it'll never happen, we are there forever.'"
Do you say that because its all seater? I dont mind the ground, though it would feel better if it was our own |
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| Quote ="wiganers"Do you say that because its all seater? I dont mind the ground, though it would feel better if it was our own'"
It just has the feeling of a football stadium for some reason, but yes, id also like the upper north and south to be terraced with seating below, or vice versa. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I'm happy there. It is a superb facility that cost us relatively little.
Saints will be going onto that new stadium (and it does look nice) with a debt of somewhere between £2.5 and £5 million pounds. How long will it take them to recover that debt?
Where would the money come from to buy a new stadium?
Where could it be built?
The only other option would be is to buy the DW, but what would be the running costs?
Next time I see you I'll give you a bit of info, and you'll understand my reasoning.'"
Really, can you quantify that statement with fact or is it just pure speculation? (I know its the latter)
Considering Saints HAD to move to make the club viable and profitable, do you really think any RL club could carry a debt of £5million, and more the the point, do it purposely so they can have a new stadium? |
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Quote ="TheJudge"Really, can you quantify that statement with fact or is it just pure speculation? (I know its the latter)
Considering Saints HAD to move to make the club viable and profitable, do you really think any RL club could carry a debt of £5million, and more the the point, do it purposely so they can have a new stadium?'"
The £2.5 million was published on Red Vee a few weeks ago from a statement by McMannus There are other factors which "could" see that figure rise significantly, including the disappointing attendances at Widnes this year.
Copied from a post on Red Vee.
Trawl through the documents on the stadium site, you will find that the club took out a bridging loan to cover their part of the stadium cost, it cost £750 thousand over 18 months.
Stopping at KR for a further year would have mean't a longer loan period meaning a bigger loan, besides that the way they are ripping KR apart I doubt we had any option but to get out.
llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.u...mageName=89917
3rd paragraph.
Copied from the above address, (council stadium site)
The total indebtedness of the Club is likely to increase materially in order to finance St Helens
Rugby League Club’s proposed financial contribution to the construction cost of the new
stadium. Taylor Woodrow’s payment for Knowsley Road would only be received on vacant
possession. Resultantly, an 18 month bridge loan of £8 million would have to be taken out
pending completion. This is likely to produce an incremental interest burden of up to
approximately £750,000, which would be capitalised and added to the current indebtedness
of the Club of £1,750,000 (£750,000 bank debt and £1,000,000 director’s/shareholder’s
loans). The total Club debt at the time of the new stadium is likely to be in the region of
£2,500,000 which the Club would intend to secure against the long lease and the stadium
itself and redeemable in full over a ten year period. It is therefore envisaged that the majority
of all the Club’s profits will be applied to the repayment of indebtedness for the first ten years
in the new stadium. |
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Quote ="TheJudge"Really, can you quantify that statement with fact or is it just pure speculation? (I know its the latter)
Considering Saints HAD to move to make the club viable and profitable, do you really think any RL club could carry a debt of £5million, and more the the point, do it purposely so they can have a new stadium?'"
The £2.5 million was published on Red Vee a few weeks ago from a statement by McMannus There are other factors which "could" see that figure rise significantly, including the disappointing attendances at Widnes this year.
Copied from a post on Red Vee.
Trawl through the documents on the stadium site, you will find that the club took out a bridging loan to cover their part of the stadium cost, it cost £750 thousand over 18 months.
Stopping at KR for a further year would have mean't a longer loan period meaning a bigger loan, besides that the way they are ripping KR apart I doubt we had any option but to get out.
llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.u...mageName=89917
3rd paragraph.
Copied from the above address, (council stadium site)
The total indebtedness of the Club is likely to increase materially in order to finance St Helens
Rugby League Club’s proposed financial contribution to the construction cost of the new
stadium. Taylor Woodrow’s payment for Knowsley Road would only be received on vacant
possession. Resultantly, an 18 month bridge loan of £8 million would have to be taken out
pending completion. This is likely to produce an incremental interest burden of up to
approximately £750,000, which would be capitalised and added to the current indebtedness
of the Club of £1,750,000 (£750,000 bank debt and £1,000,000 director’s/shareholder’s
loans). The total Club debt at the time of the new stadium is likely to be in the region of
£2,500,000 which the Club would intend to secure against the long lease and the stadium
itself and redeemable in full over a ten year period. It is therefore envisaged that the majority
of all the Club’s profits will be applied to the repayment of indebtedness for the first ten years
in the new stadium. | |
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I saw that post on Red Vee, I was wondering where the £5million had come from?
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Everybody, just chill yer beans.
Latics will lose to West Ham on Sat and get relegated at the end of the season.
The mercenary players will either trigger their ‘if we get relegated’ clauses and do one, or be left at the club on a reduced (but still extortionally high) wage packet.
Latics attendences will plummet further, I predict that they will get less speccies in the championship ‘on the way down’ than they did ‘on the way up’.
Once the parachute payments run out they will be in serious trouble financially.
In steps IL, buys it a reduced price (as someone’s already said who else is going to buy it Orrell RU?), and Bob’s Yer Uncle welcome to OUR stadium.
I reckon most of us get wound up with the fact that we haven’t got our own stadium (sometimes fuelled by posters from other clubs on here), but patience, patience. I can see some sort of the above scenario happening in the not too distant future.
I agree that it feels soulless at times. (It doesn’t when it’s got over 20k on). It will never be CP and the older ones of us will always, quite rightly, think back with nothing but fondness for it, even if the facilities were crap.
Things I would change if we owned it.
Put some terracing in.
Somehow get rid of the open corners (although probably too expensive).
Remove all reference to football.
Rent it to conference football team WAFC.
To dream, eh, to dream.
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Talk about a ungrateful bunch, we put a roof over your heads and it's whinge whinge whinge! anyway you can't rip the seats out and put terracing in the stands are too steep!
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| Quote ="TheJudge"I saw that post on Red Vee, I was wondering where the £5million had come from?'"
He decided to double it to make himself feel better about renting from Latics and giving match day income to someone else, isn't it obvious? |
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| Quote ="FearTheVee"He decided to double it to make himself feel better about renting from Latics and giving match day income to someone else, isn't it obvious?'"
We'll see, and I did say BETWEEN £2.5 and £5 million. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"We'll see, and I did say BETWEEN £2.5 and £5 million.'"
Do you think we were budgeting on full houses at Widnes?
I'd love to know how you've reached the conclusion that one year at Widnes could cost the club £2.5m over what they have budgeted?
At an average of £25 a ticket (an overestimate I'm sure you'll agree), that would be 100,000 fewer fans. Over 13 home games that's about 7,700 fewer fans per game than we are budgeting for.
I'd be astounded if we budgeted for anything more than 8,000 average attendances, so we'd need to average about 300 fans per game for your made up scenario to be true. I know our crowds are down, but I didn't realise it was that bad.
Care to let us in on your calculations as to how you reached that £5m figure, or is it just jealous nonsense? |
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Why would I be jealous?
You're already admitting to starting in the new Stadium with £2.5 million of debt and hoping that you can clear it in 10 years.
I'll stand by what I said, in that the debt COULD be as high as £5 million.
Is it true that Saints haven't had a shareholders meeting since 2009?
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Why would I be jealous?
You're already admitting to starting in the new Stadium with £2.5 million of debt and hoping that you can clear it in 10 years.'"
When you bought your first house, did you have a mortgage?
£2.5m of borrowings and a brand new £25m stadium looks pretty good to me? The fact it's planned to be repaid within 10 years would support the fact that it's a wholly reasonable amount of debt for the club to carry, wouldn't you agree?
Are you seriously saying you wouldn't accept £2.5m on Wigan's balance sheet in return for a brand new RL stadium owned by Wigan RL in the middle of the town? 
Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I'll stand by what I said, in that the debt COULD be as high as £5 million.'"
It COULD be as high as £500 billion too. I'm just wondering how you calculated your £5m figure based upon a quoted £2.5m figure - what was the basis that you are so keen to stand by? given you stand by it, I assume it has at least SOME basis?
Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Is it true that Saints haven't had a shareholders meeting since 2009?'"
What point are you trying to make? As s shareholder I receive the club's accounts by the way. |
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| The non shareholders meeting was mentioned to me by a Saints fan (not her  ) and I just wondered if it was true as it seemed strange. |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"llpgport.oltps.sthelens.gov.u...mageName=89917
3rd paragraph.
Copied from the above address, (council stadium site)
The total indebtedness of the Club is likely to increase materially in order to finance St Helens
Rugby League Club’s proposed financial contribution to the construction cost of the new
stadium. Taylor Woodrow’s payment for Knowsley Road would only be received on vacant
possession. Resultantly, an 18 month bridge loan of £8 million would have to be taken out
pending completion. This is likely to produce an incremental interest burden of up to
approximately £750,000, which would be capitalised and added to the current indebtedness
of the Club of £1,750,000 (£750,000 bank debt and £1,000,000 director’s/shareholder’s
loans). The total Club debt at the time of the new stadium is likely to be in the region of
£2,500,000 which the Club would intend to secure against the long lease and the stadium
itself and redeemable in full over a ten year period. It is therefore envisaged that the majority
of all the Club’s profits will be applied to the repayment of indebtedness for the first ten years
in the new stadium.'"
The link doesn't work.
Here's the salient point from your quote above:
Taylor Woodrow’s payment for Knowsley Road would only be received on vacant possession. [uResultantly[/u, an 18 month bridge loan of £8 million would have to be taken out pending completion.
Knowsley Road was vacated officially I think in February of this year. There is nothing but a couple of corners left of it with housebuilding already well underway. How do you know whether this loan was ever even taken out or whether the paragraph above which was apparently taken from the council website, the link to which does not work, was simply a proposal due to the financial mess Taylor Wimpey (not Woodrow) found themselves in last year, which resulted in our stadium plans being pushed back for a season? How do you know, if the loan was in fact taken out, that it wasn't subsequently paid back following the Knowsley Road site being vacated and the resultant money becoming payable by Taylor Wimpey?
I would suggest you know nothing at all, and nor do people on RedVee.
Incidentally, bridging loans have to be paid off in full. It wasn't a bridging loan if the terms were that it could be paid back over ten years. |
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"I would suggest you know nothing at all, and nor do people on RedVee.
Incidentally, bridging loans have to be paid off in full. It wasn't a bridging loan if the terms were that it could be paid back over ten years.'"
I think we can add you to that list as well (although we didn't need any further evidence). It clearly states the interest on the bridging loan was going to be capitalised against the stadium, not that it was being paid to the lender over 10 years. |
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| Quote ="Wigan/Leeds Andy"I think we can add you to that list as well (although we didn't need any further evidence). It clearly states the interest on the bridging loan was going to be capitalised against the stadium, not that it was being paid to the lender over 10 years.'"
I didn't claim to know anything about the finances of it. I didn't even imply that I did. I was simply referring to the construction of the paragraph, which suggests something other than that which was being suggested by Rogues.
But since you have presented yourself as someone who understands finance (beyond dealing with personal current accounts, which even I understand), what does the reference
Quote redeemable in full over a ten year period. '"
refer to if not to the lender? |
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If that 2.5mil is going to be paid off in 10 years then Saints accounts must be a hell of a lot healthier than ours.
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| Quote ="Uhtred"If that 2.5mil is going to be paid off in 10 years then Saints accounts must be a hell of a lot healthier than ours.'"
Especially when you consider that haven't posted a profit for over 20 years. |
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) and I just wondered if it was true as it seemed strange.
