If I was in a ruck on the field (yes, been in a few in my time) and starting swinging first - thus giving myself 3+ clean unopposed shots - and at the end I'm down on my haunches looking battered as hell with a bust nose streaming with blood and my opponent is standing on the sidelines looking pretty fresh and shouting at one of the coaches, who is telling him off for being binned, then yes I'd consider that a loss.

Even Tallis, when interviewed (it's on youtube), admits 'I wanted to teach this guy a lesson', and that 'I didn't, he got just as many on me as I got on him', and talks about how tough Terry is.

Landing the most punches does not equal doing the most damage.

i remember the game at jjb as it was then, Renouf was getting his head took off almost every tackle and in that game someone punched Tez (not sure if it was Toa or nikau) clean in the face all i remember is Tez not even bothering to throw back and just smiling back. Although he did fight in that same game.

Thank you. Someone else who thinks the same.

St Helens supporters hold him in such high regard, yet berate Sean O'Loughlin for so-called being a headhunter.

His off the ball tackle on Kevin Brown in the 2004 Challenge Cup Final at Cardiff being a prime example.

I second that. Des Drummond could be an absolute nutter at times. Whereas wingers would take an easy ball in to gain field position when returning a kick, Des would run full blast and use his head, rather than his shoulder, to drive the ball in. He was very fast as well, which no doubt added substantially to the impact.

Shaun Wane mentioned this on the Cherry & White memories DVD, but I actually remember this happening at the time - Joe Lydon was returning a kick in the 1987 Premiership Final, when Des Drummond absolutely poleaxed Lydon with one of the hardest tackles I've ever seen in my life. Lydon ended up on his back and the ball flew out of his grasp and into touch.

Gordon Tallis

He's just a cheap shot merchant, he got knocked into next week by Sculthorpe and Radford gave him a good lesson last season too (alright Bailey was on the floor for the second one but you didn't see him trying to retaliate until all his team mates got in the way)

Bailey is just a hous3. Nothing more nothing less

gotta say i disagree with you. That was pure cowardice. If he had a problem he should have initiated a fight. Hitting him with a underhand elbow in play was really bad. He basically admitted he was a soft lad there. Afraid to remonstrate with a young morely, hardest player? More like softest player. Next!

I once spoke to Dave Furner and Craig Smith and they both said the same.

Im sure Brett Hodgson would also back that up

I have just watched it and admit my memory must have been blurred by the mists of time.
But I am sticking with what I said about it being cowardly.

Who?

Quite a few who I would call have been mentioned but for me I was always inspired by Shaun Edwards attitude in the 90 challenge cup final! To play with a broken cheekbone and fractured eye socket takes some heart!
Funnily after a late shot from a wire player!!!

i remember him removing bradley clyde's head

Maybe tallis and Tez conner should get it on again to raise money for the flood victims in Brisbane !

There's one other player who was rock solid mark broadhurst from hull kr , if memory serves me right there's a video on you tube where he hits a player once and cleans him out

If you have just watched it did you also see the cowardly stamp on the back of Morleys leg, a couple of tackles previously.

Good to see Kelvin Skerett got a mension... the guys a nutcase www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUMgwZLFUgw

Good to see Kelvin Skerett got a mension... the guys a nutcase www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUMgwZLFUgw

hopefully will be putting lima into the topic of conversation soon

Bill Ashurst must get a mention

Quite a few 'hard men' on the 1962 Lions tour !!!!!!!!!!

1983. Rovers v Queensland.

Another with a bit of a reputation Timmy Street.

Give over

My grandad took me to watch widnes v wigan when i was a youngster.... i remember Emosi Koloto absolutely cleaning Kelvin Skerett right out... took them about 10 mins to scrape him up off the floor.

so Emosi Koloto.

but not in a ruck, otherwise you could use the example of cassidy and morley