He even pulled something when taking a kick at goal against Cas.

Good post

Bailey - played well, no stupid defensive blunders and scored a try

that Goulding should have done v Hull

Tommy - played well

Pat - played well at fullback one mistake

Carmont - superb timing of the pass for Ainscoughs 1st try

Roberts - defensively sound, read the interception well.

Riddell - I was quite happy with his performance

Feka - Did what he does well (look at the other thread)

Smith - Had a distinctly average game

Ainscough - scored two good tries, but missed a couple of tackles that could have cost us and dropped a catchable bomb, that put Quins in very good position.

Tomkins - Superb, a kid I've always rated. Look back over my posts over the last three years.

Bailey was all over the place in defence. The right side got murdered yet again and if that had been Goulding in the centre there would have been a thread on here slagging him off and demanding he be dropped. Somehow though Bailey can do no wrong with some, no matter how he plays.

Carmont was all at sea for both tries down the left. Again no criticism from those on here that think he can do no wrong even though he hasnt done much in the 4 games to date.

Smith was absolutely awful yet again and was so bad in defence that Noble didnt dare put him back on. There is no way that he deserves to be in the squad for next week. McIlorum should be back in.

The rest I sort of agree with.

Do you think Goulding would have scored that try?

If you drop Carmont who would play there?

I stand by the statment that the defnsive plays do not help our wide players. Carmont and Bailey at times looked totally lost in defence again, but generally i thought that both especially Bailey given his start to the year had decent games.

In the second half we actually moved up as a line and stopped moving forward and holding something i feel tha swung the game our way.

There was an incident i the first half i made a note for those who recorder it in the 25th minute london had the ball crap offload ball back in the qunins hands on the back foot, who then has the time to turn move forward and throw a speculative pass out wide while our defence held its ground. Madness. Thankfully in the second half at least in spells this tactic for the first time in god knows how long went out of the window.

I posted this on another thread jon. Made hell of a difference didn't it! Hope to God Noble has abandoned this tactic rather than it being a case of the team disregarding it.

He has scored tries like that plenty of times before so why not.

The Goulding myth that some on here like to push that he cant defend was totally blown apart last night. Bailey made more mistakes in defence, and missed more tackles, last night than Goulding did last week and Phelps was worse in the first game. In fact as many tries were conceeded down the left last year as the right but some just seem to ignore this. The truth is it is the defensive structures that are awful and the fact is that our forwards are too lazy to slide. Smith playing has just made an already bad situation far worse.

Jack Kerley said the quota players arent showing up and he is right. Carmont is one of these players, I am not saying that I would drop Carmont, because I wouldnt as based on last season he is still our best centre. However he has done very little in his 4 games so far.

Smith is just stealing a living at the moment.

Goulding had similar chances at Hull and blew them.

He made poor defensive decisions against Castleford.

For those reasons he got dropped.


Carmont has not been as good this season, but who would you replace him with.

His timing of the pass for Ainscoughs first try was top class play. Would Goulding have done it?

I'm not anti Darrell Goulding but he has been poor this season. When his chance comes again (and it will) he has to take it,just as Ainscough and Tomkins have.

I agree with both you and John on your comments regarding the defensive line, to see or 1st team using good line speed made a nice change instead of only seeing it used by the reserves and academy sides .

Next week will show whether this is going to be the new way or whether it's back to the same old tactic! Here's hoping...

Goulding was one of our best players at Hull and was one of the better ones against Castleford. He was made a scapegoat for Smiths shocking defence last week, as Noble tends to do with the younger players. I really dont see how you can criticise Gouldings defence last week and not Baileys last night. If Gouldings was bad last week then Baileys was as bad last night. Goulding missed one tackle last week, Bailey missed more last night.

However as I have said our defence out wide, whoever plays, is awful and it usually is not the centres fault. However some on here dont seem to realise this. Our defensive structures are poor and our forwards do not slide. Smith playing has made an already bad situation far worse. To slaughter Goulding for last week but not Phelps in the first game or Bailey or Carmont last night is hypocritical.

I have already said that I wouldnt drop Carmont as he is easily our best centre.

I'm sorry but I'm gong to have to disagree.
If Goulding had made the right decisions with ball in hand at Hull Wigan would have won the game

He made poor decisions defensively v Cas.

Brian Noble obviously sees it the same way as I do.

However, is it poor coaching, or players not obeying instructions?

I think it was John Monie who said that defense is a team thing, tackling is an individual thing.

Tim Smiths tackling was diabolical v Cas.

Darrell has to learn from his mistakes otherwise he will be following Aspinwall down that well trodden road.

Has Darrell improved since he's been training with the first team or not ?. I'm not sure i've noticed any real improvement in any of our first team for the past two years in skill ,speed, mistakes, penalty's etc, with one or two exceptions . Which leaves me rather disappointed overall with the coaching team .

Who is better ?

I suspect Noble might think Pryce is (when fit)

Jack Kerley got it right when he said that you and him were watching different games.

To blame Goulding for defeat against Hull is ludicrous. One of the breaks he slowed for support and Phelps was nowhere to be seen, another he caught the ball above his head and by the time he controlled it he was smashed by a great hit by Byrne.

Blaming him for Smiths faults against Castleford is laughable. Cullen got the Castleford analysis spot on on Boots N All, as did Offiah on Sky Sports. Funny none of them blamed Goulding, or most Wigan fans that I have spoken to either. Like I said if you are saying Goulding was bad in that match then Bailey was as bad, or worse as he missed more tackles, against Harlequins.

Noble has always made the youngsters the scapegoats, Goulding, McIlorum, Prescott, Joel Tomkins and O'Carroll have all be victims on numerous occasions in the past. I am sure Sam Tomkins and Ainscough's turn will come. Based on performances this season at least half the team should have been dropped before Goulding. Just because Noble has done so means nothing and certainly does not mean that Noble agrees with you, unless you personally know him and he has told you so. As you say though we will have to agree to disagree.

We looked twice as dangerous when TL when to hooker, he is brilliant at the quick play the ball and TL is at his most dangrous when he is running at the line rather than trying to be a play maker.

Agreed. There seems to be a school of thought that because he is from Wigan and a nice lad, he can do no wrong.

Currently he isn't good enough, whether he ever will be is up for debate. Noble repeatidly gives him chances, he has yet to take them.

Agreed.

Tommy is a strong and elusive runner, but will never be a creative half-back.

Hooker is probably the perfect role for him at this stage of his career.

It takes all the pressure off him, and allows him to do what he does best, run.

Tommy's style at hooker is very similar to Tevita Leo-Latu at Wakefield.

He and Brad Drew work well together and hopefully Riddell and Leuluai will eventually have a similar partnership.

Very good post

Forgive me for asking, but are you actually applauding your own post here?

Why? I take it by that you dont agree.

Why? I take it by that you dont agree.