to be fair i dont think many fans have. Knowles as with other players play the game hard, and at times right on the limit, and thus more likely to incur disciplinary actions

i know i watched it back 3-4 times, same as i did with the Smithies tackle and to be fair didnt see much wrong. However, i must admit i wasnt aware of the hip drop tackle / focus that has been placed on it in the NRL. It looks to me like the latest tackle that the disciplinary will focus on after the chickenwing, cannonball and crusher

i know over recent weeks i have read quite a few of the disciplinary hearing notes and found it interestin to see what the player & club see v the disciplinary panel, and how it is explained out

Said for years that should a player deliberately injure his opponent which prevents him playing then the player who inflicted the injury should get a ban for the same time as the length of the injury.
That would change players' attitude towards their opponents.

And that's why we need to be careful about saying Knowles "knew exactly what he was doing". I don't believe he "deliberately" injured Cooper and I don't think you can say that/prove that for the majority of foul play that results in an injury, most are lazy tackle technique or split second brain explosions.

Aye, banning people based on them intentionally hurting people would be next to impossible to prove. Incidents like Flower on Hohihia, Westwood on Green, Newton on Gilmour and Long and Dudson on Johnstone are the types that could fall in to that category but not Knowles on Cooper. The issue with Knowles is that he’s putting completing tackles above players safety. There is a risk of injury in any tackle but he’s increasing that with his poor techniques, but you could never say his intention is to injure people.

I was thinking in particular of Isaac Luke on Rangi Chase as a deliberate attack on a limb trying to injure the opponent.

Knowles needs to learn to tackle properly, that way he wouldnt get banned as much as he does

I think you equally have to be careful of mixing up "knew what he was doing" and "deliberately trying to injure" as they are not interchangeable. Maybe "knew exactly what he was risking" would be a better way of phrasing it. I believe he knew what he was risking by raising his legs but I don't for a second believe that translates into him deliberately trying to injure Cooper. However you can't accidentally raise your legs in that situation...it's a deliberate and conscious act... so, in that sense, he knew what he was doing (or risking if you prefer).

We should be careful not to hang, draw and quarter him for something he didn't intend (deliberate intent to injure) but, equally, the actions he did intend (recklessly risking another player's welfare) shouldn't be excused just because he didn't intent to injure.

It's a balancing act which I feel, in this instance, the tribunal have handled pretty well.

I don't think that sort of thing goes through your head with that type of tackle. I genuinely think it's all about stopping the player that's getting away from you.

It carries a high risk of injury but I think it's totally different to a swinging arm or shoulder charge for example where you know what you're trying to do.

I disagree Egg. You definitely decide to put all your weight on someone. It's not an involuntary action at all. Let me put it this way. Next time you're with a mate grab him by the shoulders and tell him to start running. I absolutely guarantee that your feet will drag along the floor unless you purposely lift them. Similarly attempt to pull him down with your feet on the floor. Use all your strength. See if your legs accidentally pop up. Again, I absolutely guarantee they won't.

It's an action you have to decide to take. There's no question about that whatsoever. It's a simple matter of physics.

You've misunderstood me.

I'm not saying you don't decide to lift your feet off the floor, I'm saying you don't think about the risk of injury. Your sole intention is making the tackle which as you say you're struggling to do.

With a shoulder charge or swinging arm your intent is to hurt your opponent (not to injure them btw) to win the battle.

Singleton out for 8 weeks.

Should play Hill on Sunday as surely he’ll be needed over the next few months. Best to start in a lower intensity game.

Agree.

yes

yep

I disagree. A swinging arm and a shoulder charge are often as a result of a mis-timed tackle or the attacker changing direction/height not as intent to hurt.

I still disagree Egg. If you're swinging your entire weight on someone, you know there's a risk of injury to that person. I really can't see how a player would suddenly forget that.

If you believe that to be the case, how can you say that someone deciding to swing an arm or throw a punch will not forget in much the same way? Doesn't make any sense. Either both are culpable or neither are, surely?

I'm in no way saying it's a good tackle, I just don't think Knowles has gone out to hurt him or that the thought even crossed his mind. He's simply trying to tackle him and stop him making further yards.

You shoot out the line to put a big hit in your intention is to hurt (not injure) that player. It's the gladiatorial aspect we all love.

Don't think I mentioned punches BTW

Players celebrate big shots for example shouting at the player on the ground that needs a minute before they get up.

Nobody does that tackle and then stands over a player shouting.

Nobody goes out to injure a player like the Keane/Haaland incident in football (I hope) but there are occasions you intend to hurt.

I don't think anyone is claiming that he intentionally goes out to hurt him. Not that I've seen anyway. That doesn't mean he suddenly forgets the potential risk of injury in this type of tackle, though, in much the same way as the aforementioned swinging arm or punch (I wasn't suggesting you said punch btw. I was merely giving it as an example.)

Let me try this. No one takes a bungee jump with the intention of hurting themselves. That doesn't mean that they aren't aware of the potential risk. The two are not the same thing and I specifically said this in the original posts.

I feel, perhaps, that we're discussing two separate things here or are discussing two different points as if they're two sides of the same argument when they aren't.

You're probably right there, but at least we agree he didn't intend to deliberately injure him.

Cooper has confirmed in the Mirror that he’s looking to play on, hopes that’s at Wigan and is confident it will be.

Regardless of what happens in the future with Cooper, losing him this year is a huge hit. Probably the best front rower we had, consistent and someone who the younger forwards can follow. Losing Ellis and to a lesser extent Singleton has left us up against it.

The club will do everything they can to make that happen as well.

Good. He’s a solid prop forward and I’m glad he won’t retire off the back of this. Hopefully he comes back in as good a form as he was when he got injured, he’ll be like a new signing when he is back and a good boost at an important part of the season.

Now sent off for a crazy head high shot with 30 seconds to go in an already won cup tie.

No excuses can be made now.